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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptics in

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episode number 118 for the twenty first

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of January 2011 118 21st 1821 I think

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this in numerology going on there this

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country 18 is the legal drinking and

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voting age in the United States 21 is

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the drinking age at least something to

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be said about numerology let's worry

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about that later on this week's show

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Maynard Maynard finally gets to talk to

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Phil Plait the bad astronomer and

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they'll be discussing the end of the

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world and some more important things

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following that we have George horeb

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singing with Phil Plait of course death

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from the skies from his fantastically

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good and very well-received album treble

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Jay after that I zipped down to

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Melbourne where I wonder through

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Victoria Queen Victoria markets with my

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good friend dr. Steve Roberts what will

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we find then we have dr. Richie reports

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where dr. Reggie appeared on national

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television on a show called the drum

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with Steve Canaan to talk about Andrew

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Wakefield so dr. Reggie reports this

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week is the audio from her national TV

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appearance well done dr. Richie and

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finally to wrap the show up we have the

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Melbourne think tank yes a group of us

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got down there in Melbourne around the

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table a few nice drinks barbecue on the

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way and discuss various skeptical topics

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thank you to all those people who have

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been signing up to the skeptic zone

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newsletter via wwc uptick zone TV wow

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the numbers really did skyrocket

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recently and I actually had to get an

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upgrade in the in the subscription I'm

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subscribing to thank you all very much

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and if you like the newsletter please

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forward it on to your friends and your

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enemies and finally if you want to

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really help us and dr. Reggie in

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particular we are saving up to buy dr.

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HC a fantastically good new microphone

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so her doctor rachy reports segments

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sound even better

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and they do now the best way you can

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help us if you want to help us in dr. AG

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a dollar a week for as long as you like

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or as short as you like at the website

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ok enough from me enough for me I'm

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going to race out and have a nice ginger

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beer of course yum yum yum while you

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yes it was the great meeting of the

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minds Maynard and dr. Phil Plait over

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Skype and over telephone because i think

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the enemies of reason we're trying to

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sabotage the whole thing may not started

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off by asking Phil Plait about his TV

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show bad universe and why he destroyed

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we needed to pick someplace to show what

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it would be like when it gets hit by a

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big rock and in the movies and TV shows

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at least in America they keep showing

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the same places we've seen London hit

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we've seen San Francisco and New York

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and and France Paris any place has a

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landmark and we have a team who was

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researching this and they found that

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Sydney had never been hit by an asteroid

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on TV and it has really well to find

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landmarks you've got the Opera House and

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the Harbour Bridge and those are iconic

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so we decided to pick them and I wound

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up apologizing a lot to all my

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Australian friends now what was the saws

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of the asteroid and how fast was it

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going we just sort of give a size of

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about a kilometer we don't we don't make

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it I think to specific simply because

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that's sort of a lower limit of the size

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you need to start having global

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consequences if you have something

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that's a hundred metres across its local

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it'll it'll wipe out a city or something

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like that and the bigger it gets the

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more damage does in fact in this one we

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do give a size because we compare it to

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our explosion of course s droids on

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explosive that is travelling really fast

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so how do you convert the kinetic energy

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into explosive energy how do you let

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that app well that's a really good

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question in fact a long time ago has

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asked if a comet hits us and it's made

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of ice why does it set things on fire

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that was a good question i'd never

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thought of it and the reason is because

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there's an energy involved with motion

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if you have a big rock and it's just

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sitting there it's just sitting there

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there's no energy in it but if you start

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moving it it takes energy to move it and

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it takes energy to stop it and the

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faster it's moving the more energy it

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has and these asteroids are huge they

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could weigh billions of tons and they're

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moving at many many many kilometers per

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second even something a hundred metres

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across when it hits could explode like

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20 million tons of TNT 20 megatons but

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you know if something a mile wide hits

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there's no place in Australia to be safe

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yeah it depends on where you are I mean

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if you're if you're within a certain

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distance there's going to be the flash

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of heat that will simply vaporize

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anything that that's within

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line-of-sight of it farther away yeah

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there's a pressure wave just basically a

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super sound wave that could basic

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you know turn you into I think cottage

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cheese is the word I used feel I've

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gotta ask you a few speculative

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questions here but even some speculation

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sure what do you think about the whole

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thing about disclosure do you think one

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day the American government will say oh

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yeah all along UFOs are real and we knew

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it do you think that will ever happen no

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because I don't think there's anything

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to that because the speed of light

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barrier yes that's that's not the

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direction i was thinking what I was

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thinking is that I just don't think that

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the vast majority and by vast majority I

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mean 99 plus percent of UFO reports are

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credible people are very easily fooled

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it's very easy to think that a satellite

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in the sky or a meteor or seriously

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Venus Venus is reported as the UFO all

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the time just last year or was it about

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a year and a half ago in the u.s. there

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were there were news reports and all

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this stuff about a UFO over a lake one

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of the great lakes and it was clearly

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Venus clearly so you know a lot of these

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reports aren't right and and I just

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don't see it happening and yes from that

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angle I just don't see aliens coming

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here to visit us fly around in our skies

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and then leave it just doesn't make any

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sense to me especially not in the

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numbers that are that are reported so I

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don't think aliens are visiting us I

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think there's life out there I think

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what we're learning about the physics of

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the way planets evolved I think that

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that pretty much guarantees that there's

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going to be life out there we're on the

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verge of finding planets like the earth

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now I think in five years we'll know

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whether there are planets like the earth

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out there or not and I think we'll know

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in the positive but we just don't know

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about life out there right now and I I

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don't think there's enough of that to

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get here and investigate us so no i'm

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i'm not a big big proponent of

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government disclosure stuff where do you

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sit with the Tunguska event comet

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antimatter what do you think it was as

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an astronomer come on were you there

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feel uh no was not there now what you're

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talking about is the Tunguska event

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which was in 1908 its engines explosion

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Ella Krakatoa or some volcanic

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explosions are bigger this released the

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energy of roughly a 20 Megaton nuclear

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bomb and what was it now when I was

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kid I member reading about it could have

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been antimatter could have been a black

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hole it could have been a UFO and the

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reason people speculate so much about

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what it is is because there's no crater

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there was an expedition that went there

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about 20 years later and they found no

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crater but they did find all the trees

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were knocked down and had been set on

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fire so clearly this was a very

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energetic event well we found out much

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much much later and I mean 20 years ago

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something like that I was in grad school

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and people were just starting figure

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this out that you can have asteroids or

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comets that will explode in the air and

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this release is a huge amount of energy

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and can set fire to a lot of the land

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but it doesn't leave a crater because

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there's no physical impact with the

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ground we're almost a hundred percent

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positive that this really was just a

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chunk of rock or ice that blew up in the

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atmosphere fulfilled plate is their son

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like astronomical event you haven't seen

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in your lifetime that you'd like to see

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that maybe won't kill us oh yeah total

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solar eclipse never seen one everybody

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tells me you've seen one it's

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life-changing it's one of the most

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desperately beautiful things you'll ever

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see why did you bag Pluto you one of

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those guys who voted Pluto out of the

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solar system no I had nothing to do with

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that I wasn't at that meeting I've gone

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back and forth on this a lot I've talked

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to a lot of friends of mine including

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some astronomers who were involved with

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that and I think that the idea of voting

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on whether Pluto is a planet or voting

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on the rules of what should be a planet

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or not to me it's silly now how do you

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feel about the ilkook lab i reckon

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that's pretty cool well the Oort cloud

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is this it's it's still a theoretical

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concept that there's this repository of

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gazillions of comets way out in the

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solar system and we've never actually

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seen it but we did predict that there

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would be sort of an intermediate cluster

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of these things between us and it which

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is called the edgeworth Kuiper belt and

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in fact that has been seen which lends a

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lot of credence to the fact that this

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cloud is out there and it may have you

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know billions of these things out there

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and that's where our long-term comets

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come from and of course in Independence

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Day that's where the aliens big

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spaceship hid before it came out and if

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you were trying to hide be the place to

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be or you'd come from the Sun wouldn't

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you say we couldn't see it yeah that's

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actually hard I guess it depends on how

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fast your ship moves people think you

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know just moving a spaceship around is

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like driving a car but it's not it's

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like driving a

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r if your house is moving a hundred

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miles an hour in one direction in your

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garage is moving 100 miles an hour in

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the other everything's moving and it's

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really hard to just you can't just point

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an aim and go you have to predict where

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your your targets gonna be when you get

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there and so it's hard to just come out

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of the Sun it'd be really really hard

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for aliens to sneak up on us chances are

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we'd see him hello for those people that

269
00:10:56,610 --> 00:10:55,390
wonder like is he suddenly gone under

270
00:10:57,810 --> 00:10:56,620
the water or something our skype

271
00:10:59,790 --> 00:10:57,820
connection just wasn't behaving itself

272
00:11:01,260 --> 00:10:59,800
was it Phil no not terribly well

273
00:11:03,210 --> 00:11:01,270
sometimes that happens we were just

274
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:03,220
talking about near abu there and i was

275
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:04,810
just saying that as an astronomer when

276
00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:06,850
people go on about these planets that

277
00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:09,100
you and everyone else in the business is

278
00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:11,980
pretty sure exactly does not exist how

279
00:11:15,389 --> 00:11:13,540
do you not go ballistic about it when

280
00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:15,399
you hear it over and over and over again

281
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:18,190
it can be very tough but in this case

282
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:19,839
it's even harder because there are

283
00:11:23,730 --> 00:11:21,250
people out there who were scared by this

284
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:23,740
and this whole planet x thing you can go

285
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:25,450
back into the internet archives and find

286
00:11:29,639 --> 00:11:27,760
people who were you know selling their

287
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:29,649
houses trying to move to safe locations

288
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:30,610
because they thought this thing was

289
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:33,370
coming in 2003 and in fact this planet

290
00:11:37,530 --> 00:11:35,770
doesn't exist we know if there were

291
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:37,540
something like Mars to land through the

292
00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:39,730
solar system all the planets orbits

293
00:11:42,690 --> 00:11:41,230
would be all messed up and and the

294
00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:42,700
people talking about this are talking

295
00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:45,310
about a planet much bigger than Mars so

296
00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:47,529
clearly this thing doesn't exist so it's

297
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:50,500
pretty easy to say no that it that's

298
00:11:53,940 --> 00:11:52,510
wrong but it still scares people and

299
00:11:57,180 --> 00:11:53,950
that's very upsetting to me and what

300
00:11:59,370 --> 00:11:57,190
about Apophis that's the asteroid that's

301
00:12:01,050 --> 00:11:59,380
going to come really really close to us

302
00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:01,060
now see that's that's a real thing

303
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:04,860
Apophis is not going to hit us in 20 29

304
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:07,930
but it is going to pass very close to

305
00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:09,610
the earth it's going to pass so close we

306
00:12:13,019 --> 00:12:11,230
can't really know exactly what's going

307
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:13,029
to happen to its orbit and it's possible

308
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:14,650
that seven years later it will come back

309
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:16,810
and hit us now the odds of that are

310
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:19,570
incredibly low and we don't think it's

311
00:12:23,220 --> 00:12:20,560
going to happen it's like one in a

312
00:12:24,690 --> 00:12:23,230
million it's very low but someday there

313
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:24,700
will be an asteroid that's going to do

314
00:12:29,010 --> 00:12:26,890
this so Apophis is a really good test

315
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:29,020
case for us I'm not worried about it I

316
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:30,490
don't think it's going to hit but it is

317
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:32,320
something we should study and learn from

318
00:12:36,269 --> 00:12:34,450
so that when the day comes we will be

319
00:12:38,370 --> 00:12:36,279
able to do something and look at your

320
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:38,380
dacha on the Discovery Channel Apophis

321
00:12:42,730 --> 00:12:40,970
is it shaped like a hippo

322
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:42,740
we don't actually know what apophysis

323
00:12:47,619 --> 00:12:45,110
shape like oh okay so you bit of

324
00:12:50,050 --> 00:12:47,629
artistic endeavor look like a potato or

325
00:12:51,460 --> 00:12:50,060
bit of a hippo yeah potato they're the

326
00:12:53,619 --> 00:12:51,470
model we used was just something that

327
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:53,629
was based on some observations but we

328
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:55,040
don't really know what it's shaped like

329
00:12:58,960 --> 00:12:56,930
we know that a lot of asteroids are kind

330
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:58,970
of potato shaped so that was just a

331
00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:00,560
model to give you an idea of what it

332
00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:02,500
might be like now how do you get on with

333
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:05,060
astrologers has been a bit of a haha on

334
00:13:09,220 --> 00:13:07,370
the BBC this week some astronomers over

335
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:09,230
there said something I don't know

336
00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:10,490
exactly what it was but quite an

337
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:12,889
unfavorable about astrologist do us all

338
00:13:19,629 --> 00:13:17,569
just get on no not terribly well that

339
00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:19,639
whole thing was so ridiculous it was

340
00:13:23,499 --> 00:13:21,230
just some astronomers saying you know

341
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:23,509
the the signs of the zodiac have changed

342
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:25,519
over the past few thousand years this

343
00:13:30,129 --> 00:13:26,810
this is nothing new we've known about

344
00:13:32,949 --> 00:13:30,139
this for centuries but somehow the media

345
00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:32,959
translated this as astronomers add new

346
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:35,060
sign to the zodiac and it's got spread

347
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:38,480
through Twitter and everywhere and it

348
00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:41,120
was just it was so silly and in the

349
00:13:46,059 --> 00:13:44,120
meantime to me astrology is nonsense it

350
00:13:48,429 --> 00:13:46,069
doesn't make any sense there's no way

351
00:13:50,829 --> 00:13:48,439
that position of the Sun when you were

352
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:50,839
born can have any influence on you and

353
00:13:55,210 --> 00:13:52,370
it's been tested over and over again and

354
00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:55,220
shown not to work so it's not just you

355
00:13:58,689 --> 00:13:56,660
can't prove it works we can actually

356
00:14:00,670 --> 00:13:58,699
show it doesn't and yet people still

357
00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:00,680
believe in it and it's it's because like

358
00:14:03,999 --> 00:14:02,300
you said earlier it's maddening where

359
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:04,009
did you get that catchphrase of yours a

360
00:14:11,019 --> 00:14:06,410
holy alcala kala kala is it a muppets

361
00:14:13,119 --> 00:14:11,029
thing no and and that that's a whole

362
00:14:15,610 --> 00:14:13,129
thing what I've been saying it for years

363
00:14:18,340 --> 00:14:15,620
it's the name of a volcano in Hawaii

364
00:14:20,079 --> 00:14:18,350
it's haleakala and there was a TV show

365
00:14:21,850 --> 00:14:20,089
back in the 80s I used to watch and

366
00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:21,860
somebody actually said holy haleakala

367
00:14:26,019 --> 00:14:23,870
while they were on vacation there and it

368
00:14:27,549 --> 00:14:26,029
just struck me as funny I I said it at

369
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:27,559
one point while we were filming my

370
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:30,170
producer liked it so I said it a few

371
00:14:33,369 --> 00:14:31,970
more times and I said you know just use

372
00:14:34,689 --> 00:14:33,379
a couple of it use it a couple of times

373
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:34,699
and he went abusing it like I don't even

374
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:36,410
know seven times or something crazy I

375
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:37,490
thought it might have been I walk the

376
00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:40,490
dinosaur was not was thing oh oh I can i

377
00:14:44,999 --> 00:14:42,819
connect a boom boom boom I like

378
00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:45,009
boom no not like that that's a great

379
00:14:48,869 --> 00:14:46,929
quote from you i really like it i hope

380
00:14:51,059 --> 00:14:48,879
it's your quote the universe is cool

381
00:14:54,869 --> 00:14:51,069
enough without making up crap about it

382
00:14:57,179 --> 00:14:54,879
yeah that's me I say that a lot because

383
00:14:58,349 --> 00:14:57,189
honestly you know people make stuff up

384
00:14:59,579 --> 00:14:58,359
about the universe all the time because

385
00:15:01,889 --> 00:14:59,589
I think they want to make it more

386
00:15:03,389 --> 00:15:01,899
exciting but you don't need to once you

387
00:15:05,489 --> 00:15:03,399
learn about what's really out there and

388
00:15:08,369 --> 00:15:05,499
what's really going on there's enough

389
00:15:10,139 --> 00:15:08,379
Wonder and awe and majesty out there for

390
00:15:11,579 --> 00:15:10,149
anyone who play we're gonna see on the

391
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:11,589
Discovery Channel just give us one thing

392
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,600
we can investigate and take away and

393
00:15:16,619 --> 00:15:15,279
have a look up on the net or on some

394
00:15:18,029 --> 00:15:16,629
astronomy sites what's one thing we

395
00:15:19,529 --> 00:15:18,039
could have a look at this afternoon and

396
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:19,539
get a bit of that wonder if you go to

397
00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:21,910
bad astronomy com which is my website

398
00:15:25,409 --> 00:15:23,350
that will take you to my blog which is

399
00:15:27,449 --> 00:15:25,419
being hosted by discover magazine I post

400
00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:27,459
pictures there all the time and describe

401
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:29,470
the science behind them I just posted

402
00:15:32,729 --> 00:15:30,970
one of the Orion Nebula which is

403
00:15:34,739 --> 00:15:32,739
gorgeous another one of a nearby

404
00:15:36,749 --> 00:15:34,749
galaxies with galaxies that are much

405
00:15:38,549 --> 00:15:36,759
more distant in the background and I use

406
00:15:41,009 --> 00:15:38,559
that as an excuse to talk about how big

407
00:15:43,229 --> 00:15:41,019
the universe is but how big of a role we

408
00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:43,239
play in it I love doing that sort of

409
00:15:45,779 --> 00:15:44,649
thing and I think if you if you scroll

410
00:15:47,789 --> 00:15:45,789
through and look for some of the things

411
00:15:49,169 --> 00:15:47,799
I talk about there you'll find some

412
00:15:51,329 --> 00:15:49,179
things to interest you what do you think

413
00:15:53,609 --> 00:15:51,339
of the Drake Equation are any of those

414
00:15:55,710 --> 00:15:53,619
numbers even possible it was just such a

415
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,720
wild guess it's just don't worry about

416
00:15:58,919 --> 00:15:57,519
it well actually the Drake Equation is a

417
00:16:00,869 --> 00:15:58,929
way of estimating how much life there is

418
00:16:03,629 --> 00:16:00,879
in the universe and it depends on things

419
00:16:04,979 --> 00:16:03,639
like how how often stars are formed how

420
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:04,989
many of them have planets how many of

421
00:16:09,179 --> 00:16:06,970
those planets have life and ten years

422
00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:09,189
ago we really didn't know but now we've

423
00:16:13,379 --> 00:16:10,929
got several of those terms in the

424
00:16:15,299 --> 00:16:13,389
equation pretty well understood we now

425
00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:15,309
often stars are born in the galaxy and

426
00:16:18,569 --> 00:16:16,569
we're getting a good idea of how many of

427
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:18,579
them have planets so we're able to start

428
00:16:22,859 --> 00:16:20,649
to nail this thing down a little bit but

429
00:16:25,259 --> 00:16:22,869
it's not supposed to give you a specific

430
00:16:27,359 --> 00:16:25,269
number it's not going to be six I talked

431
00:16:30,210 --> 00:16:27,369
about this in a second episode and there

432
00:16:31,949 --> 00:16:30,220
could be you know one or two alien

433
00:16:33,629 --> 00:16:31,959
civilizations in the galaxy or there

434
00:16:35,969 --> 00:16:33,639
could be thousands we don't really know

435
00:16:37,319 --> 00:16:35,979
but the more we study the stuff the more

436
00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:37,329
we find out the better we'll be able to

437
00:16:40,379 --> 00:16:38,889
nail that down new being on the cutting

438
00:16:42,329 --> 00:16:40,389
edge of science when you run up against

439
00:16:44,969 --> 00:16:42,339
someone who is into astrology or

440
00:16:46,799 --> 00:16:44,979
seriously believes in UFO what is the

441
00:16:48,809 --> 00:16:46,809
way that you try and change their mind

442
00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:48,819
well how do you approach it I've been a

443
00:16:52,169 --> 00:16:50,350
little forceful here and in this

444
00:16:53,819 --> 00:16:52,179
particular interview but I actually I'm

445
00:16:55,229 --> 00:16:53,829
very sympathetic to people who believe

446
00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:55,239
in things because I was that way when I

447
00:16:58,260 --> 00:16:55,840
was a kid

448
00:16:59,760 --> 00:16:58,270
I believed in UFOs and telepathy and all

449
00:17:01,500 --> 00:16:59,770
that sort of stuff and as the evidence

450
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:01,510
became more overwhelming as I read more

451
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:03,850
about it I realized that no this stuff

452
00:17:07,710 --> 00:17:05,890
doesn't exist so I try to be sympathetic

453
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:07,720
when I'm talking to people i try to try

454
00:17:11,820 --> 00:17:10,510
to be nice and say you know well let's

455
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:11,830
look at some of the evidence look let's

456
00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:13,030
look at some of the claims you're making

457
00:17:18,210 --> 00:17:15,940
and see if they if they work out and try

458
00:17:20,790 --> 00:17:18,220
to you know reach across to them and

459
00:17:22,170 --> 00:17:20,800
show them what what i think is really

460
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:22,180
happening and doesn't always work and

461
00:17:25,740 --> 00:17:23,890
that's okay you can't convince everybody

462
00:17:26,940 --> 00:17:25,750
but hopefully a little by little you

463
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:26,950
know if you can convince them of one

464
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:28,450
little thing get your foot in the door

465
00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:30,250
there eventually they'll be able to

466
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:31,960
apply that to other other aspects of

467
00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:33,520
their lives as well that's the best we

468
00:17:37,650 --> 00:17:35,320
can hope for now you are known as the

469
00:17:41,610 --> 00:17:37,660
singing astronomer and I've got the jaws

470
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,620
Rob track that you feature on I don't

471
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:43,840
actually sing for that song but I'm

472
00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:46,090
actually i narrate that song George Rob

473
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:47,350
is a friend of mine he's a skeptic and

474
00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:49,510
he's a musician and he came out with his

475
00:17:53,550 --> 00:17:52,030
latest album called trebuchet and on it

476
00:17:55,410 --> 00:17:53,560
as a song called death from the skies

477
00:17:57,420 --> 00:17:55,420
and he plays the background music and

478
00:17:59,520 --> 00:17:57,430
has me reading statistics of the

479
00:18:02,040 --> 00:17:59,530
likelihood of a nearby supernova or a

480
00:18:03,330 --> 00:18:02,050
black hole passing by the earth and that

481
00:18:04,740 --> 00:18:03,340
was actually a lot of fun to do i'm

482
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:04,750
hoping to take that on the road the

483
00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:06,250
lunge track isn't supposed to scare us

484
00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:08,590
it's just to open our eyes yeah and

485
00:18:10,890 --> 00:18:09,430
matter of fact it might even be

486
00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:10,900
reassuring because the odds are so low

487
00:18:14,250 --> 00:18:12,700
of these things happening gonna come to

488
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:14,260
Australia going to look at a food crisis

489
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:16,240
Oh what I love to come back I would come

490
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:36,639
Oh

491
00:18:43,999 --> 00:18:40,809
odds of dying by Astra impact one in

492
00:18:47,019 --> 00:18:44,009
700,000 the overall risk of dying

493
00:18:49,639 --> 00:18:47,029
primitive act in your lifetime is one in

494
00:18:51,949 --> 00:18:49,649
700,000 somewhat less that's being

495
00:18:54,409 --> 00:18:51,959
killed by a fireworks accident but still

496
00:19:16,030 --> 00:18:54,419
more cruel than being killed on the mews

497
00:19:22,790 --> 00:19:19,070
odds of dying by supernovae explosion

498
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:22,800
one in ten million supernovae happen

499
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:24,510
about once per century in anything

500
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:27,510
galaxy a soon event would cause a mass

501
00:19:32,990 --> 00:19:30,810
extinction nearly everyone hurry you

502
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:33,000
specifically dying from one during your

503
00:19:51,250 --> 00:19:48,080
odds of dying by solar flare or coronal

504
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:51,260
mass ejection zero but with an asterisk

505
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:53,850
popping big solar event can seriously

506
00:19:58,370 --> 00:19:55,530
impair or destroy a nation's

507
00:20:01,910 --> 00:19:58,380
infrastructure and come into all it will

508
00:20:04,670 --> 00:20:01,920
not directly cause death we have to this

509
00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:04,680
zero chance for human fatality but with

510
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:06,600
an extra Ska's a known to the

511
00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:20,990
odds of dying by gamma ray burst one in

512
00:20:27,050 --> 00:20:24,630
14 million gary bursts are dangerous for

513
00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:27,060
distances of more than 7,000 five years

514
00:20:31,820 --> 00:20:29,400
we have to be in a fan of a relatively

515
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:31,830
narrow beam get hurt your odds of being

516
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:35,460
killed by a grb or 114 million you are

517
00:20:47,470 --> 00:20:37,290
found a slightly be killed by a shark

518
00:20:47,480 --> 00:21:14,060
control as I've done by emphasizing

519
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:37,200
the universe

520
00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:45,240
these are the ways the world will end

521
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,070
this is desiree host of Canadian radio

522
00:21:53,169 --> 00:21:51,200
show skeptically speaking for those of

523
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:53,179
you that don't know Kenneth is quite

524
00:21:57,970 --> 00:21:55,610
similar to Australia people know is

525
00:22:00,990 --> 00:21:57,980
primarily for our weather and our beer

526
00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:01,000
and we have a queen just like you do

527
00:22:07,299 --> 00:22:05,000
same one as you do actually we also have

528
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:07,309
mythical monsters and people who think

529
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:09,650
they have psychic abilities and people

530
00:22:14,049 --> 00:22:11,120
who think that vaccinations are bad for

531
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,059
you so keep listening to the skeptic

532
00:22:23,969 --> 00:22:16,159
zone and know that we're all in this

533
00:22:27,999 --> 00:22:26,560
well i'm in that melbourne victoria

534
00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:28,009
visiting my good friend dr. steve

535
00:22:32,639 --> 00:22:30,049
roberts and steve has dragged me along

536
00:22:35,469 --> 00:22:32,649
quite willingly I must say to the famous

537
00:22:37,149 --> 00:22:35,479
Victoria Queen Victoria Martinez to lea

538
00:22:39,579 --> 00:22:37,159
market at top of it is of a street in

539
00:22:42,189 --> 00:22:39,589
Melbourne it's like a giant sheds or

540
00:22:43,989 --> 00:22:42,199
sheds i should say big tin roofs and

541
00:22:45,729 --> 00:22:43,999
they just stall out to store after store

542
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:45,739
we're passing jeans at the moment

543
00:22:51,159 --> 00:22:48,320
there's some leather jackets ugg boots

544
00:22:53,639 --> 00:22:51,169
over there some some interesting clocks

545
00:22:57,099 --> 00:22:53,649
giant clocks here flags of all nations

546
00:23:00,159 --> 00:22:57,109
painting phone accessories number plates

547
00:23:02,139 --> 00:23:00,169
it goes on and on and on so I'm curious

548
00:23:03,489 --> 00:23:02,149
to see what we're going to find you can

549
00:23:05,619 --> 00:23:03,499
have your own number plate made up over

550
00:23:09,279 --> 00:23:05,629
here look at that you type it into the

551
00:23:11,529 --> 00:23:09,289
computer and away you go for fun Steve's

552
00:23:16,209 --> 00:23:11,539
toolshed little Viggo let's go feed your

553
00:23:17,829 --> 00:23:16,219
boobies yeah oh well let's let's dive

554
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:17,839
into these markets and see what we can

555
00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:27,120
we've come across a remarkable little

556
00:23:31,470 --> 00:23:29,950
store here they're selling a device you

557
00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:31,480
put over your ear it's called the

558
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:34,630
genuine Ozzy [\h__\h] protector ideal

559
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:37,450
for use with politicians conspiracy

560
00:23:42,810 --> 00:23:39,970
theorists creationists nagging spouses

561
00:23:45,150 --> 00:23:42,820
used car salesman ex-girlfriend friends

562
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:45,160
religious fanatics married men debtors

563
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:47,410
tradesmen and many more and the website

564
00:23:56,210 --> 00:23:53,049
is www protected calm day you and your

565
00:23:59,159 --> 00:23:56,220
the lovely lady here at the stent

566
00:24:00,780 --> 00:23:59,169
selling this other stuff I i must admit

567
00:24:05,159 --> 00:24:00,790
that's a bitty pretty unusual thing to

568
00:24:08,010 --> 00:24:05,169
sell surprisingly very popular for

569
00:24:10,169 --> 00:24:08,020
people people by four at a time yeah

570
00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:10,179
head of a I've never seen anything like

571
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:11,950
it it's really funny but you're also

572
00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:13,330
selling all sorts of wonderful other

573
00:24:16,860 --> 00:24:15,160
things like this is for getting rid of

574
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:16,870
pet hairs is it yeah and bubbles off

575
00:24:21,570 --> 00:24:18,880
your clothes and ironing board covers

576
00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:21,580
everything and my friend I Steve Roberts

577
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:22,990
is here she was just telling me that the

578
00:24:26,010 --> 00:24:24,250
the bull should protect his cell

579
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:26,020
remarkably well Steve I shall think so

580
00:24:30,570 --> 00:24:27,370
as you can saw need for that kind of

581
00:24:32,010 --> 00:24:30,580
money someday maybe rush to the big

582
00:24:33,570 --> 00:24:32,020
marketing getting [\h__\h] protector

583
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:33,580
just what you need this what I hope they

584
00:24:39,270 --> 00:24:36,490
come in pairs under each here that reach

585
00:24:45,020 --> 00:24:39,280
in very handy oh thank you very much

586
00:24:51,540 --> 00:24:47,520
Steve I wanted to have a quick word

587
00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:51,550
about your quiz dr. Bob's online quiz

588
00:24:57,090 --> 00:24:54,070
now this is a quiz specifically for

589
00:24:58,680 --> 00:24:57,100
skeptics well can you say that not for

590
00:25:02,370 --> 00:24:58,690
anybody who's the light heart of the

591
00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:02,380
likes of sense of fun right and what

592
00:25:05,340 --> 00:25:03,640
sort of questions you posed in New

593
00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:05,350
Orleans look I guess Phillip was setting

594
00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:07,750
an exam like you nosy earth young or old

595
00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:10,150
and if you say it's young you go all bad

596
00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:13,270
bad no point bad bad or if you say it's

597
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:15,190
very old you yes very good one point

598
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:17,890
Dean you know what so what so what I

599
00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:19,210
wanted to do is to ask questions that

600
00:25:24,419 --> 00:25:21,160
are extremely difficult yes you do have

601
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:24,429
an answer but really I don't oppose as

602
00:25:30,270 --> 00:25:27,250
being a smartass so I just like to see

603
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:30,280
Wheaton rip RT and a witty answer so the

604
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:31,890
winner of your quiz each month is not

605
00:25:35,970 --> 00:25:34,090
necessarily who gets it right oh nice

606
00:25:40,140 --> 00:25:35,980
who gets the best answers regardless oh

607
00:25:43,049 --> 00:25:40,150
yeah well I already know the answer so

608
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:43,059
it be some sunny sunny can put something

609
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:45,730
witty you know um for example on the

610
00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:49,510
world land speed record in 1899 65 miles

611
00:25:53,910 --> 00:25:51,700
an hour what powered the vehicle that

612
00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:53,920
took his record yeah okay it was

613
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,870
actually steam-powered and also

614
00:26:02,270 --> 00:25:58,320
electricity powered one in the same year

615
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:02,280
but if somebody replied vanity or

616
00:26:08,970 --> 00:26:05,770
testosterone and it's not even really

617
00:26:11,490 --> 00:26:08,980
more accurately the real answer how was

618
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:11,500
the sound of music edited for showing in

619
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:14,650
South Korea I wasn't they cuddle the

620
00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:18,850
songs out it's too long there's are sort

621
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:20,800
of things you like the Bob's quit the

622
00:26:26,190 --> 00:26:22,570
answer I got was on it is a

623
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:26,200
insufficiently it is a with duct tape

624
00:26:32,010 --> 00:26:30,010
and a flamethrower North Korea so it

625
00:26:33,390 --> 00:26:32,020
really just people who send some fun and

626
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:33,400
I published all the answers I get all

627
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:35,200
the ones on the printable yeah up or

628
00:26:38,460 --> 00:26:37,090
down for interval yeah there's no prize

629
00:26:40,620 --> 00:26:38,470
when you see if it gives it just a sense

630
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:40,630
of fun and very difficult questions and

631
00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:42,370
you can also see all the previous

632
00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:43,990
questions and all the previous answers

633
00:26:48,290 --> 00:26:46,030
and the winner gets their name put on

634
00:26:50,270 --> 00:26:48,300
your bored of your role of Honor my

635
00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:50,280
Olive on other sites and we could send a

636
00:26:54,050 --> 00:26:52,470
great skeptic CD or something so there

637
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:54,060
are prizes occasionally look check out

638
00:27:00,830 --> 00:26:57,120
dr. Bob's skeptical or not so skeptical

639
00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:00,840
quiz and that's a ww skeptics calm day

640
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:04,020
you / features and there you'll find dr.

641
00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:06,570
Bob's quiz that's right yeah I think I

642
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:08,070
happy to engage in correspondence for

643
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,290
people to send answers in as well so see

644
00:27:20,510 --> 00:27:12,000
if we can stamp dr. Bob thanks Steve

645
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:20,520
thank you one of the things that

646
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:24,090
interest me being here with the hundreds

647
00:27:28,490 --> 00:27:26,220
of little stalls are there are some

648
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:28,500
selling what can only assume a Power

649
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:33,690
Balance ripoffs the packaging is vastly

650
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:37,440
inferior looks like photocopy paper

651
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,710
almost but you know the power balance

652
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:42,720
bands observe looks just as genuine is

653
00:27:47,270 --> 00:27:45,210
the so-called real item but they range

654
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:47,280
anywhere from ten dollars back there for

655
00:27:51,950 --> 00:27:49,050
purple one to forty dollars around in

656
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:51,960
another store so I guess some people

657
00:27:57,380 --> 00:27:54,150
here has simply bought consignments of

658
00:27:59,660 --> 00:27:57,390
them from somewhere and flogging them

659
00:28:02,870 --> 00:27:59,670
off here at the Victoria markets very

660
00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:02,880
interesting so there we pop silver flip

661
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:06,120
off I say ripoffs of shonky device to

662
00:28:20,590 --> 00:28:18,040
what a great time it's been here just

663
00:28:22,690 --> 00:28:20,600
looking around the amazing stories of

664
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:22,700
Victoria markets I also almost sound

665
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:25,690
like I've been paid by the by the

666
00:28:30,910 --> 00:28:28,010
management here to spruik this place but

667
00:28:32,380 --> 00:28:30,920
it really is a fantastic morning to

668
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:32,390
browse these shops because you'll never

669
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:35,360
know what you'll find Steve Roberts is

670
00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:37,010
walking away with bag loads of goodies

671
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:39,590
yeah you like all these souvenirs I

672
00:28:46,060 --> 00:28:41,390
didn't think I'd need I could spare

673
00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:46,070
Timmy levitus panel and a web camera for

674
00:28:51,490 --> 00:28:48,830
the computer and my auntie [\h__\h]

675
00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:51,500
stickers of course a very handy all

676
00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:52,670
sorts of stuff I never really knew I

677
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:55,220
need it but I've got it now well I think

678
00:29:00,580 --> 00:28:58,250
it's the universal truth is you don't

679
00:29:02,860 --> 00:29:00,590
really see things in your own city until

680
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:02,870
somebody comes to visit and they say

681
00:29:08,380 --> 00:29:04,310
let's go out and do this so let's get

682
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:08,390
into that obvious oh yeah and have to be

683
00:29:14,350 --> 00:29:10,850
open to there's all sorts of stalls here

684
00:29:16,510 --> 00:29:14,360
mechanical and clothes and food and Lulu

685
00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:16,520
stuff and uniting it's all here of

686
00:29:24,130 --> 00:29:19,150
course we passed a little stall of a

687
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:24,140
psychic tarot card reader and where they

688
00:29:27,790 --> 00:29:26,240
sense things from touching the object so

689
00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:27,800
I comment psychometry the word escape

690
00:29:32,050 --> 00:29:30,470
from psychometry that's right so yet

691
00:29:33,550 --> 00:29:32,060
Melbourne people if you haven't been to

692
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:33,560
your Victorian markets in a while now is

693
00:29:37,020 --> 00:29:35,210
the time to do it and if you're visiting

694
00:29:49,870 --> 00:29:37,030
Melbourne I can thoroughly recommend

695
00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:54,020
so that's why you can't eat her I was

696
00:29:57,140 --> 00:29:56,220
just talking to the students here and

697
00:30:00,050 --> 00:29:57,150
look I'm supposed to tell you about

698
00:30:03,770 --> 00:30:00,060
something the cosmic tea party I new

699
00:30:05,150 --> 00:30:03,780
science podcast podcast hey who's it at

700
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:05,160
any rate it's about science and

701
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:07,890
mathematics sounds rather dull oh hang

702
00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:11,250
on hang on it and says here not done so

703
00:30:16,580 --> 00:30:12,870
there you have it the cosmic tea party

704
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:16,590
podcast www cosmic Tea Party or or

705
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:23,520
search for them one I choose now it's

706
00:30:32,180 --> 00:30:26,490
time for dr. Rachel reports with dr.

707
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:32,190
Rachel Dunlop final part of a British

708
00:30:36,380 --> 00:30:33,930
Medical Journal investigation has been

709
00:30:37,910 --> 00:30:36,390
published debunking research by andrew

710
00:30:40,610 --> 00:30:37,920
wakefield which claimed a link between

711
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:40,620
autism and the MMR vaccine given to

712
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,930
children the journal denounces the study

713
00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:45,360
as an elaborate fraud but Wakefield says

714
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:47,310
it's trying to crush valid probes into

715
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:49,890
immunization Wakefield's research led

716
00:30:53,180 --> 00:30:51,510
many parents to stop vaccinating their

717
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:53,190
children and is still cited by

718
00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:55,130
anti-vaccination groups around the world

719
00:30:59,240 --> 00:30:57,240
dr. rachel Dunlop is a research

720
00:31:00,650 --> 00:30:59,250
scientist and a member of the Australian

721
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:00,660
skeptics she has written extensively

722
00:31:04,670 --> 00:31:03,330
about the Wakefield case on her blog and

723
00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:04,680
she joins us now Rachel thanks for

724
00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:06,150
coming on the drum thanks for having mr.

725
00:31:09,890 --> 00:31:08,310
now let's go back to the case of andrew

726
00:31:11,540 --> 00:31:09,900
wakefield what did he do when did it

727
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:11,550
when did this all start before we get

728
00:31:15,620 --> 00:31:13,530
into the medical journal publications

729
00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:15,630
tell us a bit more about Wakefield sure

730
00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:17,790
well the paper was published in 1998 in

731
00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:20,870
The Lancet and it covered 12 children

732
00:31:25,850 --> 00:31:23,670
who Wakefield was trying to demonstrate

733
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:25,860
this new disorder called autistic

734
00:31:31,010 --> 00:31:28,290
colitis which is a disease of the

735
00:31:33,290 --> 00:31:31,020
gastrointestinal tract and so he did

736
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,300
this study looking at these 12 children

737
00:31:37,670 --> 00:31:36,000
and then what happened was in fact in

738
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:37,680
the study it didn't look at a link

739
00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:40,530
between autism and vaccination but he

740
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:42,270
had a subsequent press conference after

741
00:31:47,540 --> 00:31:44,850
the study was released and this is where

742
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:47,550
the whole sort of vaccines and MMR cause

743
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:50,610
autism began and it sort of got taken on

744
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:52,650
by the media particularly in the UK and

745
00:31:57,170 --> 00:31:54,840
spread across the world and it created

746
00:31:58,850 --> 00:31:57,180
this vaccine scare which we

747
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:58,860
today which is that many parents think

748
00:32:03,340 --> 00:32:01,200
for vaccines so what direct influence to

749
00:32:06,250 --> 00:32:03,350
Wakefield have on childhood vaccinations

750
00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:06,260
uh well vaccination rates dropped

751
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:08,340
particularly the MMR which is the

752
00:32:13,730 --> 00:32:10,890
measles mumps rubella vaccine in in the

753
00:32:15,650 --> 00:32:13,740
UK for example after his study was

754
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:15,660
released levels dropped to about

755
00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:18,510
seventy-nine percent now it's required

756
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:20,700
about ninety two percent of people have

757
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:22,290
to be vaccinated to have this some

758
00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:24,510
process called herd immunity and

759
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:26,820
basically that means that if a lot of

760
00:32:30,650 --> 00:32:28,110
people in the community are vaccinated

761
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:30,660
then when we get viruses or bacteria

762
00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:33,930
into the community they can't spread and

763
00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:35,700
in some parts of London in fact our

764
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:37,470
vaccination levels drop to as low as

765
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:40,470
fifty percent so what what what impact

766
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:41,730
did that have on these kind of diseases

767
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:43,890
coming back in well it had an impact on

768
00:32:47,690 --> 00:32:45,570
measles coming back in the UK in

769
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:47,700
particular and children getting stick in

770
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:49,530
some children tragically dying as a

771
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:52,650
result so yeah he had a big impact on

772
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:54,570
the levels of vaccination rates after he

773
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:56,130
released his paper well let's deal with

774
00:32:59,270 --> 00:32:57,600
the three part series that the British

775
00:33:00,980 --> 00:32:59,280
Medical Journal has just released and

776
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:00,990
the last version of that has just been

777
00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:04,650
published now they say that Wakefield is

778
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:06,750
guilty of an elaborate fraud now that's

779
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:08,370
just not you know making mistakes

780
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:10,410
elaborate fraud is very strong language

781
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:11,850
why are they using that kind of language

782
00:33:18,350 --> 00:33:15,120
yeah well I guess before this these

783
00:33:20,270 --> 00:33:18,360
three publications were put out by the

784
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:20,280
bmj which was in the last week and a

785
00:33:25,070 --> 00:33:22,890
half we thought that perhaps it was bad

786
00:33:27,530 --> 00:33:25,080
science whereby perhaps Wakefield had

787
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:27,540
massaged the statistics a little bit or

788
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:29,940
misinterpreted the data a little bit but

789
00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:31,890
the research that Bryan dear did and

790
00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:33,390
he's an investigative journalist who

791
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:35,430
published this these three things in the

792
00:33:39,950 --> 00:33:37,770
bmj he spent seven years researching

793
00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:39,960
this case and he was able to show that

794
00:33:45,370 --> 00:33:43,620
in fact Wakefield made up clinical

795
00:33:47,510 --> 00:33:45,380
records of the children in the study

796
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:47,520
those 12 children that you mentioned

797
00:33:51,260 --> 00:33:49,530
before that's correct so the 12 children

798
00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:51,270
in that study when deer went back and

799
00:33:54,770 --> 00:33:52,830
checked the records at the hospital

800
00:33:58,220 --> 00:33:54,780
where they originally came and were

801
00:33:59,390 --> 00:33:58,230
diagnosed or tested on didn't match the

802
00:34:02,480 --> 00:33:59,400
information that was in the paper

803
00:34:05,060 --> 00:34:02,490
whatsoever it turned out also that most

804
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:05,070
of the children that Wakefield said were

805
00:34:08,829 --> 00:34:06,930
autistic that he studied in this paper

806
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:08,839
weren't autistic

807
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:10,399
it turned out that some of the studies

808
00:34:13,389 --> 00:34:11,690
that he did he did some pathology

809
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:13,399
studies where he took tissue from the

810
00:34:18,099 --> 00:34:15,529
kids collins to look for increased

811
00:34:19,959 --> 00:34:18,109
levels of measles virus those slides

812
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:19,969
could never be found so that data

813
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:22,609
couldn't be reproduced and of course

814
00:34:26,229 --> 00:34:24,049
there's always something behind this

815
00:34:28,329 --> 00:34:26,239
stuff Steven that's you know he was you

816
00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:28,339
know for money basically so tell us what

817
00:34:31,869 --> 00:34:29,839
tell us about that tell us what the

818
00:34:34,899 --> 00:34:31,879
Bryant dear the journalist found out

819
00:34:38,019 --> 00:34:34,909
about Wakefield's financial incentive to

820
00:34:39,999 --> 00:34:38,029
why what he did well I mean I'm a

821
00:34:41,709 --> 00:34:40,009
research scientist myself and when I

822
00:34:43,269 --> 00:34:41,719
read this stuff last week I didn't think

823
00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:43,279
it could be as bad as it is it's really

824
00:34:49,450 --> 00:34:45,950
really bad I mean we knew that Wakefield

825
00:34:51,129 --> 00:34:49,460
was employed by a lawyer back in 1998

826
00:34:53,709 --> 00:34:51,139
and he was putting this lawyer was

827
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:53,719
putting together a case to show that the

828
00:34:58,479 --> 00:34:55,609
MMR vaccine was dangerous and so

829
00:35:01,209 --> 00:34:58,489
Wakefield was being paid 150 quid an

830
00:35:03,339 --> 00:35:01,219
hour by these lawyers as an expert and

831
00:35:05,950 --> 00:35:03,349
didn't he end up getting over 400,000

832
00:35:08,499 --> 00:35:05,960
British pounds for you yeah and I do too

833
00:35:10,420 --> 00:35:08,509
conversion today and that comes to 696

834
00:35:13,299 --> 00:35:10,430
thousand australian dollars so it's not

835
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:13,309
small bicky's in addition to that he had

836
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:15,529
a patent when he'd submitted for a

837
00:35:19,620 --> 00:35:17,930
measles vaccine because what he was

838
00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:19,630
trying to show is that the triple

839
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:22,160
injection was dangerous so if he could

840
00:35:25,779 --> 00:35:24,079
show that through this paper and he had

841
00:35:27,219 --> 00:35:25,789
a patent on a singles measles vaccine

842
00:35:28,959 --> 00:35:27,229
that he could say but I've got the

843
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:28,969
solution over here here is the single

844
00:35:33,459 --> 00:35:32,210
one by mine but in fact that's a you

845
00:35:35,469 --> 00:35:33,469
know we're talking about a million

846
00:35:37,299 --> 00:35:35,479
dollars st but it's much much worse than

847
00:35:39,309 --> 00:35:37,309
that and what dear was able to find

848
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:39,319
which is what he published last week was

849
00:35:45,249 --> 00:35:42,079
that also Wakefield had plans he had a

850
00:35:48,279 --> 00:35:45,259
business plan to develop a test to look

851
00:35:50,709 --> 00:35:48,289
for this disorder in children that his

852
00:35:53,709 --> 00:35:50,719
test was potentially going to be making

853
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:53,719
his company about 72 million pounds a

854
00:35:58,930 --> 00:35:56,930
year that is no we're not talking small

855
00:36:01,049 --> 00:35:58,940
B he's here okay well Anderson Cooper

856
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:01,059
did an interview with andrew wakefield

857
00:36:06,219 --> 00:36:03,890
recently on CNN and here is what Andrew

858
00:36:08,499 --> 00:36:06,229
Wakefield said in defense of himself

859
00:36:09,789 --> 00:36:08,509
after this the first our first couple of

860
00:36:12,489 --> 00:36:09,799
the articles were published by the

861
00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:12,499
British Medical Journal cheers is a

862
00:36:17,650 --> 00:36:14,630
ruthless pragmatic attempt to crush any

863
00:36:19,779 --> 00:36:17,660
investigation into valid vaccine safety

864
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:19,789
concerns not just my concerns i'm here

865
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:22,130
at a meeting of experts on vaccines but

866
00:36:25,660 --> 00:36:24,079
around the world who are extremely

867
00:36:28,059 --> 00:36:25,670
concerned about the safety of vaccines

868
00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:28,069
and the barrage but they believe and i

869
00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:30,470
believe is being done to children so

870
00:36:34,269 --> 00:36:32,200
Wakefield there is trying to say that

871
00:36:36,460 --> 00:36:34,279
the journal the British Medical Journal

872
00:36:38,109 --> 00:36:36,470
is trying to crush valid investigations

873
00:36:41,079 --> 00:36:38,119
into vaccines he also said in that

874
00:36:42,789 --> 00:36:41,089
interview that the journalist brian dia

875
00:36:45,819 --> 00:36:42,799
is a hit man he described it as a hit

876
00:36:47,980 --> 00:36:45,829
man yeah well I think I mean Wakefield

877
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:47,990
saying that this is an attempt to quash

878
00:36:52,660 --> 00:36:50,000
valid research into vaccines is

879
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:52,670
absolutely false um for 13 years now

880
00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:54,529
science has been concentrating on trying

881
00:36:58,569 --> 00:36:56,390
to find this link between vaccines and

882
00:37:01,450 --> 00:36:58,579
autism because Wakefield published this

883
00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:01,460
in 1998 so 13 years of science have been

884
00:37:04,990 --> 00:37:03,470
spent looking into this link lots and

885
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:05,000
lots of studies have been done and has

886
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:07,130
there's been no evidence found Steve so

887
00:37:12,099 --> 00:37:09,049
in fact we've diverted our attention

888
00:37:15,309 --> 00:37:12,109
from looking at the causes of autism

889
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:15,319
into debunking what Wakefield did okay i

890
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:18,170
want to ask this question in relation to

891
00:37:21,730 --> 00:37:19,490
that because the australian vaccination

892
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:21,740
networker anti-vaccination organization

893
00:37:25,089 --> 00:37:23,119
they have a website on their website

894
00:37:27,130 --> 00:37:25,099
they refer to Wakefield in the british

895
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:27,140
medical journal articles and they say

896
00:37:30,910 --> 00:37:28,490
that Wakefield's results have been

897
00:37:32,319 --> 00:37:30,920
verified and rieber ified many times in

898
00:37:34,509 --> 00:37:32,329
the years since that first study was

899
00:37:36,099 --> 00:37:34,519
published in 1998 yeah this is something

900
00:37:37,569 --> 00:37:36,109
Wakefield says as well he says that

901
00:37:39,819 --> 00:37:37,579
there have been five studies done

902
00:37:42,279 --> 00:37:39,829
internationally that repeated or

903
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:42,289
reproduced his work one of those studies

904
00:37:47,230 --> 00:37:45,170
was done by a white one of Wakefield's

905
00:37:49,690 --> 00:37:47,240
colleagues and published in a journal on

906
00:37:52,180 --> 00:37:49,700
which Wakefield was an editor so there's

907
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:52,190
a big conflict of interest air as to

908
00:37:56,049 --> 00:37:53,690
whether or not you know that's a valid

909
00:37:57,099 --> 00:37:56,059
study one of them was an abstract which

910
00:37:59,529 --> 00:37:57,109
means it was presented at a conference

911
00:38:01,450 --> 00:37:59,539
but never published a couple of them

912
00:38:05,049 --> 00:38:01,460
were case studies on one or two people

913
00:38:06,789 --> 00:38:05,059
and one of them did a reasonable study

914
00:38:07,870 --> 00:38:06,799
and showed that there was no link so I'm

915
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:07,880
not quite sure where they get that

916
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:10,160
information okay the ABN also say once

917
00:38:14,589 --> 00:38:11,930
again the media in response to these

918
00:38:15,819 --> 00:38:14,599
these bmj articles once again the media

919
00:38:17,829 --> 00:38:15,829
is marching to the tune of their

920
00:38:19,779 --> 00:38:17,839
advertisers and goose stepping across

921
00:38:23,380 --> 00:38:19,789
the truth without any regard to what

922
00:38:24,490 --> 00:38:23,390
actually happened well if you look at

923
00:38:27,029 --> 00:38:24,500
what the studies that have been done

924
00:38:30,269 --> 00:38:27,039
since wakeful published The Lancet paper

925
00:38:33,370 --> 00:38:30,279
for example there was a study done in

926
00:38:35,290 --> 00:38:33,380
Denmark that looked at about 500,000

927
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:35,300
children and looked

928
00:38:39,970 --> 00:38:37,370
vaccinated versus unvaccinated and found

929
00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:39,980
there was no increase in MMR in Japan

930
00:38:44,290 --> 00:38:41,630
they stopped using the MMR for a long

931
00:38:47,770 --> 00:38:44,300
time and the rates of autism continue to

932
00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:47,780
increase some of the components of

933
00:38:51,580 --> 00:38:49,670
vaccines that people like the avian

934
00:38:55,090 --> 00:38:51,590
claim cause autism were taken out of

935
00:38:57,730 --> 00:38:55,100
vaccines in the year 2000 2001 but MMR

936
00:38:59,830 --> 00:38:57,740
sorry autism rates continue to go up so

937
00:39:01,450 --> 00:38:59,840
it's clear that there's nothing to do

938
00:39:04,420 --> 00:39:01,460
with the vaccination timbira you got a

939
00:39:06,850 --> 00:39:04,430
question or a comment I guess I'm panic

940
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:06,860
just anecdotal he's a doctor I didn't

941
00:39:11,350 --> 00:39:08,450
certainly working in Sydney or out of

942
00:39:12,580 --> 00:39:11,360
Sydney thankfully as large as this was

943
00:39:15,610 --> 00:39:12,590
in Britain I didn't get the impression

944
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:15,620
that had kind of spread to any lengths

945
00:39:18,850 --> 00:39:17,570
at least in metropolitan Sydney I know

946
00:39:20,380 --> 00:39:18,860
there are certainly sections of

947
00:39:23,170 --> 00:39:20,390
Australia but I would be curious to know

948
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:23,180
about statistics was there any drop in

949
00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:25,910
vaccination rates in Australia not

950
00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:27,710
really it didn't affect Australia as

951
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:29,720
much as it did the UK I mean we only

952
00:39:33,100 --> 00:39:31,250
have about two or three percent of

953
00:39:34,420 --> 00:39:33,110
parents in this country that refused to

954
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:34,430
vaccinate all together it's quite a

955
00:39:40,210 --> 00:39:37,850
small number it hasn't changed much so

956
00:39:42,460 --> 00:39:40,220
it really was a big problem much more in

957
00:39:45,970 --> 00:39:42,470
the United States and also in the UK I

958
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:45,980
mean my my I guess comment on this is a

959
00:39:50,770 --> 00:39:48,890
couple of things one I think there is a

960
00:39:53,290 --> 00:39:50,780
segment of the community generally that

961
00:39:56,380 --> 00:39:53,300
would be suspicious of science modern

962
00:39:58,060 --> 00:39:56,390
medicine etc would look to hence the

963
00:39:59,470 --> 00:39:58,070
rise in alternative medicine secular

964
00:40:00,640 --> 00:39:59,480
spiritualities so this sort of

965
00:40:03,610 --> 00:40:00,650
information would be particularly

966
00:40:07,150 --> 00:40:03,620
attractive to that group second it kept

967
00:40:09,310 --> 00:40:07,160
this these sort of events it demeans the

968
00:40:11,470 --> 00:40:09,320
quality of science to the public who

969
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:11,480
already have a very poor understanding

970
00:40:14,410 --> 00:40:13,130
of science and you know climate change

971
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:14,420
is a great example so increasingly

972
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:17,090
people will question just the validity

973
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:19,640
of trials in general so I think it's

974
00:40:25,450 --> 00:40:23,450
very damaging this caper for scientific

975
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:25,460
discourse in in the in the public realm

976
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:27,710
Carey I've just got a comment and that

977
00:40:33,550 --> 00:40:30,530
is as the mother of a child who was

978
00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:33,560
vector vaccinated but who still got

979
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,070
measles my only comment is that the

980
00:40:41,740 --> 00:40:39,680
doctors said to me see how sick she is

981
00:40:43,150 --> 00:40:41,750
can you imagine how much sicker she

982
00:40:45,310 --> 00:40:43,160
would have been if she hadn't been

983
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:45,320
vaccinated so I actually don't

984
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:47,510
understand why anyone wouldn't vaccinate

985
00:40:50,109 --> 00:40:48,650
their children

986
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:50,119
I just think it's one of these things

987
00:40:54,970 --> 00:40:52,490
which we are as parents we should all be

988
00:40:57,069 --> 00:40:54,980
doing and I really I mean I think you

989
00:40:59,440 --> 00:40:57,079
know the fact that kids who get measles

990
00:41:01,599 --> 00:40:59,450
get as sick as okay as they do and they

991
00:41:03,309 --> 00:41:01,609
can die hmm I just think it's an

992
00:41:04,779 --> 00:41:03,319
obligation on every responsible parent

993
00:41:06,279 --> 00:41:04,789
to vaccinate their kids and I don't know

994
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:06,289
anything about the sides I just know how

995
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:07,970
six Lisa was in the history of health

996
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:10,010
care clean water and vaccinations are

997
00:41:23,769 --> 00:41:11,630
probably to the biggest things that have

998
00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:23,779
save lives this is brian dunning from

999
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:26,630
the sceptile cast been enjoying your

1000
00:41:33,339 --> 00:41:30,250
critical thinking shows in audio only

1001
00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:33,349
you've been missing half the fun check

1002
00:41:41,789 --> 00:41:37,150
out my new video podcast in fact on

1003
00:41:45,279 --> 00:41:41,799
itunes or click it on skep tied com3

1004
00:41:47,589 --> 00:41:45,289
pilot episodes of in fact are available

1005
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:47,599
now for immediate viewing I'm looking

1006
00:41:51,579 --> 00:41:49,369
for sponsorship to produce an entire

1007
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:51,589
first season of 13 episodes and

1008
00:41:56,799 --> 00:41:54,170
hopefully many more seasons to follow

1009
00:41:58,599 --> 00:41:56,809
you can see the whole lineup and get all

1010
00:42:02,370 --> 00:41:58,609
the other nuts and bolts if you go to

1011
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:02,380
skep tide come and click on in fact and

1012
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:05,210
don't forget to come back to the skeptic

1013
00:42:11,799 --> 00:42:08,480
zone when you're done watching I I think

1014
00:42:14,289 --> 00:42:11,809
it's audio only but that's okay I still

1015
00:42:20,650 --> 00:42:14,299
like it this is brian dunning from

1016
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:20,660
sceptile calm join us now for drinking

1017
00:42:35,550 --> 00:42:33,480
and that clinking folks you can hear in

1018
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:35,560
the best stop it stick the clinking here

1019
00:42:38,910 --> 00:42:37,330
you can hear in the background is people

1020
00:42:40,980 --> 00:42:38,920
here in Melbourne trying desperately

1021
00:42:44,310 --> 00:42:40,990
trying to copy what we do in Sydney with

1022
00:42:45,630 --> 00:42:44,320
the thank you would the the think tank

1023
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:45,640
and i'd like to welcome everybody here

1024
00:42:49,410 --> 00:42:47,440
at the table to the melbourne think tank

1025
00:42:53,820 --> 00:42:49,420
it's very exciting we're sitting out

1026
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:53,830
here as the giant umbrella clothes away

1027
00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:55,690
above our heads i'm here with steve

1028
00:42:59,610 --> 00:42:57,760
roberts hi Steve hi Richard how are you

1029
00:43:00,900 --> 00:42:59,620
going I'm doing well and thank you for

1030
00:43:02,550 --> 00:43:00,910
hosting me down here in Melbourne I'm

1031
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:02,560
always glad to see you here so thank you

1032
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:04,720
and thank you for the lovely barbecue

1033
00:43:10,290 --> 00:43:07,720
are about to have oh well yes it was see

1034
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:10,300
that comes out silly goodness yeah but I

1035
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:11,650
love having you here so best laugh I've

1036
00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:16,960
had four weeks I see no I'll get

1037
00:43:21,420 --> 00:43:18,520
everybody around the table to introduce

1038
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:21,430
themselves hi I'm Chris Higgins the

1039
00:43:26,580 --> 00:43:23,290
famous Chris Higgins very very famous

1040
00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:26,590
who who is looking after James Randi of

1041
00:43:31,770 --> 00:43:28,780
course during town well we say looking

1042
00:43:34,020 --> 00:43:31,780
after it was I can't really mention it

1043
00:43:37,170 --> 00:43:34,030
it's it's classified I see ya nice to

1044
00:43:38,730 --> 00:43:37,180
meet you but it was yeah I know you had

1045
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:38,740
a wonderful time of town Australia we

1046
00:43:42,510 --> 00:43:40,480
are and certainly working with james

1047
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:42,520
randi i had a really really good time it

1048
00:43:47,340 --> 00:43:45,490
was a really unique sort of perspective

1049
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:47,350
on how the whole thing works over there

1050
00:43:53,370 --> 00:43:51,130
and what he gets up to okay and we have

1051
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:53,380
no mouth occurs here from the Victorian

1052
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:55,090
skeptics mal Vickers from the Victorian

1053
00:44:00,810 --> 00:43:56,650
skeptics great to see you coming along

1054
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:00,820
here today and I must thank you you and

1055
00:44:06,450 --> 00:44:02,890
group of people took some of us to a

1056
00:44:07,950 --> 00:44:06,460
wildlife park a few months back after

1057
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:07,960
Tammy Australia so it's a lovely place

1058
00:44:12,060 --> 00:44:10,090
yeah yeah the rain held off for us

1059
00:44:14,010 --> 00:44:12,070
during the days it was great it was

1060
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:14,020
great and just to tell everybody your

1061
00:44:21,450 --> 00:44:17,400
position in the Victorian skeptics is um

1062
00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:21,460
general dogsbody all look after the

1063
00:44:26,910 --> 00:44:24,790
website mainly okay yeah partly

1064
00:44:29,490 --> 00:44:26,920
responsible for that partly responsible

1065
00:44:31,710 --> 00:44:29,500
and of course the dear old friend of

1066
00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:31,720
mine Rose me hello rose me hello Richard

1067
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:33,790
good to see you thank you now we've

1068
00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:35,440
known each other for many years actually

1069
00:44:39,660 --> 00:44:37,990
you've been involved in the The

1070
00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:39,670
Skeptical movement for quite some time I

1071
00:44:42,859 --> 00:44:40,980
don't even know

1072
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:42,869
or remember when we met it must have

1073
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:44,130
been 10 years ago or something at least

1074
00:44:52,340 --> 00:44:47,510
would have been yes back in the late

1075
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:52,350
1990s possibly yes and sitting at the

1076
00:44:55,970 --> 00:44:53,970
end of the table somebody who Twitter

1077
00:44:59,720 --> 00:44:55,980
followers would probably know very well

1078
00:45:02,420 --> 00:44:59,730
under the tag of postie Lindley it's

1079
00:45:04,460 --> 00:45:02,430
we're posting lindley for the lone

1080
00:45:07,390 --> 00:45:04,470
deranged ER the loans Reggie wait a

1081
00:45:09,890 --> 00:45:07,400
minute wait a minute hear that music

1082
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:09,900
there we are it's her theme song folks

1083
00:45:16,370 --> 00:45:13,130
the lone deranged of posted Lili hello

1084
00:45:18,140 --> 00:45:16,380
I'm well I'm embarrassed because just a

1085
00:45:20,060 --> 00:45:18,150
little while ago we had a lovely chat in

1086
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:20,070
an interview and then I said oh it

1087
00:45:26,750 --> 00:45:24,960
didn't record yeah so she's not very

1088
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:26,760
happy with me but we were discussing all

1089
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:28,530
sorts of wonderful things about your

1090
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:30,780
getting into skepticism and how you're

1091
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:33,090
discovering this amazing world of

1092
00:45:37,550 --> 00:45:35,310
like-minded people and you're making

1093
00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:37,560
some really great contacts did something

1094
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:39,270
I've been into for a hell of a long time

1095
00:45:46,190 --> 00:45:43,440
since a primary school high school the

1096
00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:46,200
teachers teaching me skepticism through

1097
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:49,260
choice magazine but um it's only now

1098
00:45:52,730 --> 00:45:50,760
that I've actually found out this

1099
00:45:55,099 --> 00:45:52,740
obviously we all know these other people

1100
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:55,109
into it but getting on social networks

1101
00:46:00,590 --> 00:45:58,010
and actually being able to talk about it

1102
00:46:06,250 --> 00:46:00,600
going to Tam and meeting up with people

1103
00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:08,960
cheats you glance and I at me then folks

1104
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:12,060
I must say oh dear Steve like we do with

1105
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:13,710
these young people we do follow the same

1106
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:15,330
band actually mean later you would just

1107
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:16,710
find just going to be do follow the same

1108
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:20,400
band hot wind yeah so there there's a

1109
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:23,520
thing they must be about 70 vinyl silver

1110
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:26,690
machine we're going to listen to that

1111
00:46:35,060 --> 00:46:30,330
Zimmer frame she'll never friend now I'm

1112
00:46:37,970 --> 00:46:35,070
a little she so but idea we haven't even

1113
00:46:39,650 --> 00:46:37,980
begun drinking it you had a wonderful

1114
00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:39,660
time at chemistry you're telling me

1115
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:41,880
earlier along with christina and i hope

1116
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:43,920
most of the people who came along and

1117
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:45,780
you were telling me all sorts of stories

1118
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,000
about the night you were went to the

1119
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:50,720
karaoke karaoke with a

1120
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:54,050
Croucher brothers and I went there with

1121
00:46:59,500 --> 00:46:57,680
my friend Frankie james and i think you

1122
00:47:02,349 --> 00:46:59,510
know an effects gold was there of course

1123
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:02,359
he was and I yeah we sang songs with

1124
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:05,450
George Robbie turned up later on yeah

1125
00:47:09,580 --> 00:47:08,000
well I was yeah I try to get people to

1126
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:09,590
come down because everyone was upstairs

1127
00:47:17,170 --> 00:47:11,290
and I said no we're going to do karaoke

1128
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:17,180
no be free to get free drinks I've sang

1129
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:19,609
a song with that I think both Nick and

1130
00:47:25,930 --> 00:47:22,480
Tom and we sang the galaxy song

1131
00:47:29,230 --> 00:47:25,940
originally by Eric Idle really and so

1132
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:29,240
they we sang that same couple of songs

1133
00:47:34,690 --> 00:47:32,090
and then George Robbie mr. Habib you

1134
00:47:36,339 --> 00:47:34,700
were to write turned out what the kids

1135
00:47:38,650 --> 00:47:36,349
are calling yeah she is calling her

1136
00:47:42,339 --> 00:47:38,660
Rubby Rubby I love you so he turned up

1137
00:47:46,540 --> 00:47:42,349
and stole the show of course he was just

1138
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:46,550
like singing lights dance by David Bowie

1139
00:47:51,099 --> 00:47:49,250
he gave the course he said it was shot

1140
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:51,109
in Sydney which it was in one of the

1141
00:47:56,380 --> 00:47:53,690
pubs in Sydney yeah and uh yeah he just

1142
00:48:01,150 --> 00:47:56,390
what was the other song that's it

1143
00:48:03,609 --> 00:48:01,160
everyone went off on that gin gin from

1144
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:03,619
Tasmania he went absolutely nuts on that

1145
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:06,530
song so which is which is bringing me to

1146
00:48:09,970 --> 00:48:07,970
something I wanted to discuss with you

1147
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:09,980
and everybody here at the table one of

1148
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:12,530
the aspects of skepticism now we do so

1149
00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:14,089
much and there is so much to know and

1150
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,310
learn as you're finding out Lindley in a

1151
00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:18,800
skepticism well it's more um with the

1152
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:21,200
homeopathy side and the medical side

1153
00:48:28,839 --> 00:48:25,690
that um I'm needing to learn about its

1154
00:48:30,910 --> 00:48:28,849
didn't grow up with science you're

1155
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:30,920
skeptical interest really is in the in

1156
00:48:34,210 --> 00:48:32,450
the classics like they're great on the

1157
00:48:35,710 --> 00:48:34,220
paranormal in the Bigfoot some new

1158
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:35,720
that's all the stuff that's the stuff i

1159
00:48:42,310 --> 00:48:40,010
love conspiracies UFOs Bigfoot monsters

1160
00:48:45,940 --> 00:48:42,320
monster dog is a good podcast for all

1161
00:48:49,450 --> 00:48:45,950
that joe nickell i follow with his blog

1162
00:48:51,970 --> 00:48:49,460
with this fantastic yes and it's like a

1163
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:51,980
lot of on paranormal research like a lot

1164
00:48:58,820 --> 00:48:57,410
of things about defining your tarot

1165
00:49:02,900 --> 00:48:58,830
cards and

1166
00:49:04,850 --> 00:49:02,910
and that stupid water divining the rods

1167
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:04,860
and well this is what we call the

1168
00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:06,570
classics no rosemary you've been

1169
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:10,140
involved with water divining and I know

1170
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:11,970
Steve you've been involved in urbana too

1171
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:14,400
I mean there's so much to know and learn

1172
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:17,130
about skepticism but what's what's your

1173
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:19,050
opinion about keeping ourselves grounded

1174
00:49:26,210 --> 00:49:21,930
in what I guess I'd call the the

1175
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:26,220
classics Oh necessary that's it so you

1176
00:49:30,620 --> 00:49:28,140
know you have to keep grounding the

1177
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:30,630
classical method of skepticism in envy

1178
00:49:35,420 --> 00:49:33,210
methods of Investigation making fair

1179
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:35,430
test being open to evidence be open to

1180
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:38,250
claimed actually being true and we test

1181
00:49:44,330 --> 00:49:42,000
them in a property fair manner and come

1182
00:49:45,860 --> 00:49:44,340
to a good results so valid results and

1183
00:49:49,310 --> 00:49:45,870
we have to be grounded in that

1184
00:49:51,050 --> 00:49:49,320
technology in that attitude first of all

1185
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,060
and then you can then apply that to

1186
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:53,520
water divining hungry offer the UFOs

1187
00:49:58,850 --> 00:49:56,010
whatever there is you can view if you

1188
00:50:02,060 --> 00:49:58,860
establish a fair test or fair set of

1189
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:02,070
criteria to judge the phenomenon by and

1190
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:03,570
you can make a reasonable pronouncement

1191
00:50:07,220 --> 00:50:05,010
about it but you can't start with a

1192
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:07,230
conclusion no because so well they can't

1193
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:09,810
be any UFOs so no therefore you Saudi

1194
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:12,090
must be wrong because then people will

1195
00:50:14,810 --> 00:50:13,530
be all over you they'll say well what

1196
00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:14,820
about this this this and this and we

1197
00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:16,980
were talking earlier lindley about Dish

1198
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:19,110
galloping yes yeah how people can do

1199
00:50:22,820 --> 00:50:20,910
that they can steamroll you with endless

1200
00:50:24,140 --> 00:50:22,830
references and you've got no hope you're

1201
00:50:25,340 --> 00:50:24,150
distant and where to start you don't

1202
00:50:27,260 --> 00:50:25,350
know where Scott I'm gonna way to

1203
00:50:29,900 --> 00:50:27,270
criticize to actually come across as

1204
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:29,910
quite as intelligent enough to fight

1205
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:32,970
someone who has studied enough even with

1206
00:50:39,470 --> 00:50:35,850
Jenny McCarthy she has done a research

1207
00:50:41,420 --> 00:50:39,480
in what she believes in is right but to

1208
00:50:44,140 --> 00:50:41,430
actually fight her back and tell her

1209
00:50:49,130 --> 00:50:44,150
that she might be a little bit miss

1210
00:50:51,710 --> 00:50:49,140
informed my with the white in brackets

1211
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:51,720
well I think you're discovering there is

1212
00:50:57,310 --> 00:50:53,310
a lot to learn yeah there's a lot of

1213
00:51:00,530 --> 00:50:57,320
people who do know where to start and

1214
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:00,540
medical research is not my background so

1215
00:51:04,370 --> 00:51:02,850
on well we've all I mean we all have a

1216
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:04,380
lot to learn all the time but I can

1217
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:06,000
appreciate from someone from your point

1218
00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:09,210
of view really getting your feet and up

1219
00:51:12,829 --> 00:51:11,040
to your waist and up it goes into the

1220
00:51:15,140 --> 00:51:12,839
muddy waters of skepticism how

1221
00:51:17,839 --> 00:51:15,150
much there is to learn yes but I

1222
00:51:21,309 --> 00:51:17,849
particularly remember rosemary the fun

1223
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:21,319
time we had a millimeter oh yeah Oh in

1224
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:25,710
2002 yes there were two ministers at we

1225
00:51:30,739 --> 00:51:27,839
but this is the water divining test yes

1226
00:51:32,809 --> 00:51:30,749
and Richard made a film was the second

1227
00:51:35,420 --> 00:51:32,819
one but the thing I remember best was

1228
00:51:38,749 --> 00:51:35,430
the excuses that the diviners came up

1229
00:51:42,289 --> 00:51:38,759
with when they're divining implements

1230
00:51:44,539 --> 00:51:42,299
didn't work and there was fact that was

1231
00:51:47,450 --> 00:51:44,549
really fun yeah and this is something I

1232
00:51:49,370 --> 00:51:47,460
wanted to touch on as much as there is a

1233
00:51:52,130 --> 00:51:49,380
lot to learn and we all have a lot to

1234
00:51:54,650 --> 00:51:52,140
learn about what we talked about so we

1235
00:51:57,079 --> 00:51:54,660
know what we're talking about but I

1236
00:51:59,630 --> 00:51:57,089
really enjoy the social aspect of

1237
00:52:02,749 --> 00:51:59,640
skepticism it is fantastic when you

1238
00:52:05,479 --> 00:52:02,759
wouldn't you say so Chris no no getting

1239
00:52:07,609 --> 00:52:05,489
mighty Lindley that's not sure I I agree

1240
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:07,619
to our town was one of my first really

1241
00:52:12,620 --> 00:52:10,410
oh sorry Tam in Vegas 2010 was my first

1242
00:52:13,459 --> 00:52:12,630
big sort of social social experience and

1243
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:13,469
that's of course what about you guys

1244
00:52:17,299 --> 00:52:14,729
that's right yeah a whole bunch of other

1245
00:52:20,089 --> 00:52:17,309
people from from the states from the UK

1246
00:52:22,430 --> 00:52:20,099
but tam this year in sorry what were you

1247
00:52:25,609 --> 00:52:22,440
is it now last year left a monster last

1248
00:52:27,049 --> 00:52:25,619
year Tom Australia was amazing I've had

1249
00:52:29,089 --> 00:52:27,059
so many people that you know I think I

1250
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:29,099
met every single person that that Randy

1251
00:52:36,319 --> 00:52:33,150
met so you know it's 660 people remember

1252
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:36,329
three days yeah really really thoroughly

1253
00:52:41,809 --> 00:52:37,920
enjoyable I think we need to do more of

1254
00:52:43,759 --> 00:52:41,819
it yeah and but for a social basis of

1255
00:52:45,469 --> 00:52:43,769
friends too I mean you don't even have

1256
00:52:46,969 --> 00:52:45,479
to talk about skepticism know you meet

1257
00:52:48,739 --> 00:52:46,979
some really great people and you can go

1258
00:52:50,739 --> 00:52:48,749
and fight kites together or something

1259
00:52:53,150 --> 00:52:50,749
like that you know other interests

1260
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:53,160
skirmish sushi Dushi we should go

1261
00:52:58,570 --> 00:52:56,570
skirmish I just go more

1262
00:53:04,920 --> 00:52:58,580
pain motor so I can self scare me

1263
00:53:07,980 --> 00:53:04,930
skeptical motorcycle yes it was no pants

1264
00:53:10,180 --> 00:53:07,990
you drive up something to be skeptical

1265
00:53:20,050 --> 00:53:10,190
then we could shoot each other and have

1266
00:53:21,730 --> 00:53:20,060
no pets that's right it's really good to

1267
00:53:23,980 --> 00:53:21,740
meet people from all walks of life of

1268
00:53:26,140 --> 00:53:23,990
all ages young and old in various jobs

1269
00:53:29,260 --> 00:53:26,150
in you know executive management right

1270
00:53:32,290 --> 00:53:29,270
down to virtually the unemployed and the

1271
00:53:36,070 --> 00:53:32,300
nobody really cares you know and if you

1272
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:36,080
can be mixed together yeah yeah it's the

1273
00:53:40,410 --> 00:53:37,850
same we do you think having comedy to

1274
00:53:42,610 --> 00:53:40,420
respect for science massage method

1275
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:42,620
that's really about then people quite

1276
00:53:46,030 --> 00:53:44,330
different after as artistic people and

1277
00:53:48,730 --> 00:53:46,040
so we all have different interests in

1278
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:48,740
life but there's one really combining

1279
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:50,570
factor but I guess that's because we're

1280
00:53:53,890 --> 00:53:52,220
all human and that's a typical trade of

1281
00:53:55,930 --> 00:53:53,900
being human isn't it looking for like

1282
00:53:57,850 --> 00:53:55,940
minded people to socialize with and I

1283
00:54:00,490 --> 00:53:57,860
mean that's why we don't hang out with

1284
00:54:02,290 --> 00:54:00,500
them homeopaths because what are we

1285
00:54:05,410 --> 00:54:02,300
going to talk about you know is

1286
00:54:07,180 --> 00:54:05,420
witnesses things that we will have a

1287
00:54:10,210 --> 00:54:07,190
Dogma say if you've hung your fan

1288
00:54:13,330 --> 00:54:10,220
especially as I captain I got a cat it's

1289
00:54:17,530 --> 00:54:13,340
around here somewhere you've got a what

1290
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:17,540
hot dog my teddy from a bank alt ism and

1291
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:20,960
where is it I'm not talent we were

1292
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:26,000
moving right along it was good it is on

1293
00:54:30,370 --> 00:54:28,730
my facebook page mmm you've got a tattoo

1294
00:54:31,810 --> 00:54:30,380
on your Facebook page that's cheating

1295
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:31,820
why does it should be on your body

1296
00:54:39,390 --> 00:54:35,810
honestly somebody's calm about over my

1297
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:45,790
now do you see what what we're saying

1298
00:54:49,690 --> 00:54:48,170
here would you be of a similar mind have

1299
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:49,700
you found lots of interesting new

1300
00:54:54,070 --> 00:54:51,530
friends and social context yeah

1301
00:54:56,170 --> 00:54:54,080
absolutely I I just enjoy talking to

1302
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:56,180
people where you know the conversations

1303
00:54:59,830 --> 00:54:58,130
not going to dressed into you know when

1304
00:55:02,710 --> 00:54:59,840
you talk to people and they come out

1305
00:55:05,740 --> 00:55:02,720
with all sorts of world anything no I

1306
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:05,750
just find it so much nicer to talk to

1307
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:07,280
skeptics and at least they're informed

1308
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:08,960
about science and all those things and

1309
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:11,810
it's just so much easier they don't read

1310
00:55:17,170 --> 00:55:14,510
astrology well I hope they read the ones

1311
00:55:19,090 --> 00:55:17,180
that I right in the skeptic magazine oh

1312
00:55:20,940 --> 00:55:19,100
I right under the name of do a fee cap

1313
00:55:24,100 --> 00:55:20,950
which is fraud fake backwards you

1314
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:24,110
so-called new style sign they've made up

1315
00:55:30,010 --> 00:55:27,410
that's been a galaxy for a set of stars

1316
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:30,020
yeah the constellation forever but

1317
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:31,910
someone tweeted that it's only just been

1318
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:34,910
around since 1992 some astrologer on

1319
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:38,000
Twitter and I said oh you mean some Oh

1320
00:55:43,060 --> 00:55:40,730
some sweet astrologer yes and she just

1321
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:43,070
said I it's only been around since 1992

1322
00:55:48,190 --> 00:55:45,170
so I said I it so it's just gained its

1323
00:55:53,770 --> 00:55:48,200
magical mystical mystical powers and I

1324
00:55:58,420 --> 00:55:53,780
haven't heard back sense but uh but yes

1325
00:55:59,650 --> 00:55:58,430
um Orpheus or not Lucas this is

1326
00:56:01,660 --> 00:55:59,660
interesting because this is something

1327
00:56:03,310 --> 00:56:01,670
the skeptics have been banging on for

1328
00:56:05,140 --> 00:56:03,320
four years and years and years and years

1329
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:05,150
and then suddenly somebody else mentions

1330
00:56:10,030 --> 00:56:07,490
it somebody and and the media pick it up

1331
00:56:12,250 --> 00:56:10,040
and they all go crazy about it the start

1332
00:56:13,300 --> 00:56:12,260
of the stars are very old I mean the

1333
00:56:16,570 --> 00:56:13,310
probably older than the earth is

1334
00:56:18,490 --> 00:56:16,580
probably older than you give me four and

1335
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:18,500
a half for a half billion years it saw

1336
00:56:26,740 --> 00:56:23,930
as much to solving you [\h__\h] twin is

1337
00:56:29,410 --> 00:56:26,750
good yeah there's the star to be there

1338
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:29,420
since the dawn of time and the

1339
00:56:33,130 --> 00:56:31,490
consolations have been updating if not

1340
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:33,140
named as such by a committee the

1341
00:56:37,300 --> 00:56:35,510
consolations that that means it be there

1342
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:37,310
a little bit and we were little bit yeah

1343
00:56:41,650 --> 00:56:39,770
but they essentially there for millennia

1344
00:56:43,150 --> 00:56:41,660
yeah and offer you could have been there

1345
00:56:45,220 --> 00:56:43,160
from an alien the Sun been plowing

1346
00:56:47,140 --> 00:56:45,230
through it familiar to some astrology

1347
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:47,150
was looking up to the sky sir oh what's

1348
00:56:54,190 --> 00:56:48,170
that

1349
00:56:56,109 --> 00:56:54,200
she does it all this again this gets

1350
00:56:58,690 --> 00:56:56,119
back to the being grounded in the

1351
00:56:59,980 --> 00:56:58,700
classic so we say astrology is one of

1352
00:57:01,240 --> 00:56:59,990
the classics of what we should be

1353
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:01,250
grounded and we should at least have a

1354
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:03,530
working knowledge of footbed I think

1355
00:57:09,700 --> 00:57:07,730
they're talking about I don't know

1356
00:57:12,460 --> 00:57:09,710
either but at least we at least we

1357
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:12,470
should a year or so ago I appeared on

1358
00:57:16,750 --> 00:57:14,290
the television show with them

1359
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:16,760
Australia's greatest astrologer Milton

1360
00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:20,450
black and people can look at that look

1361
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:23,990
that up on youtube its Richard Saunders

1362
00:57:28,510 --> 00:57:25,970
talks about astrology i think is the

1363
00:57:31,559 --> 00:57:28,520
title and i did my little bit of

1364
00:57:33,789 --> 00:57:31,569
research on Milton black and to be

1365
00:57:35,470 --> 00:57:33,799
straightforward I just mopped the floor

1366
00:57:37,299 --> 00:57:35,480
with him you know I really did I went to

1367
00:57:39,370 --> 00:57:37,309
town on him that's because I knew what

1368
00:57:41,710 --> 00:57:39,380
he was going to say and I knew that

1369
00:57:44,260 --> 00:57:41,720
astrology has no basis so I took it from

1370
00:57:46,359 --> 00:57:44,270
there but it's it's knowing that and

1371
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:46,369
knowing what the homeopaths are going to

1372
00:57:50,319 --> 00:57:47,690
come up with and knowing behind it

1373
00:57:51,900 --> 00:57:50,329
because the worst thing is someone

1374
00:57:55,930 --> 00:57:51,910
calling them ourselves a skeptic and

1375
00:57:57,069 --> 00:57:55,940
then utterly being lost for the argument

1376
00:57:59,319 --> 00:57:57,079
or words when they come across a

1377
00:58:01,270 --> 00:57:59,329
believer they just look wrong hmm and

1378
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:01,280
they don't do a service at all and

1379
00:58:05,410 --> 00:58:03,170
that's the thing is just knowing how to

1380
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:05,420
argue with someone I mean you might be

1381
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:07,930
an armchair skeptic which I've been four

1382
00:58:13,299 --> 00:58:11,450
damn hat knows how long but I'm actually

1383
00:58:17,170 --> 00:58:13,309
knowing how to argue with someone and

1384
00:58:20,170 --> 00:58:17,180
come across as somewhat intelligent and

1385
00:58:22,690 --> 00:58:20,180
to be able to convince try to convince

1386
00:58:25,660 --> 00:58:22,700
them that they're wrong that's how about

1387
00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:25,670
oh you don't you have no idea I mean of

1388
00:58:29,319 --> 00:58:27,380
course they'd be doing the same thing

1389
00:58:32,770 --> 00:58:29,329
trying to convince us that way wrong and

1390
00:58:36,099 --> 00:58:32,780
and trying to find they're up against

1391
00:58:37,329 --> 00:58:36,109
the GRIK wallets yeah I can I can I see

1392
00:58:39,490 --> 00:58:37,339
your point of view because from their

1393
00:58:42,099 --> 00:58:39,500
point of view where the one here who are

1394
00:58:45,309 --> 00:58:42,109
closed-minded and dogmatic of course you

1395
00:58:47,829 --> 00:58:45,319
can open your mind to get in all these

1396
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:47,839
powers and so I don't know I I wouldn't

1397
00:58:52,599 --> 00:58:50,530
mind doing that I've got a few powers

1398
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:52,609
escaped me has to be more of a minder

1399
00:58:56,500 --> 00:58:54,170
than anybody else but you have to be

1400
00:58:58,930 --> 00:58:56,510
open to evidence if it comes along even

1401
00:59:00,400 --> 00:58:58,940
if you don't like it just hasn't

1402
00:59:02,140 --> 00:59:00,410
happened yet

1403
00:59:04,450 --> 00:59:02,150
has some people have changed their minds

1404
00:59:06,910 --> 00:59:04,460
about some things because evidence has

1405
00:59:08,350 --> 00:59:06,920
been forgive me alrighty i'm sorry

1406
00:59:09,820 --> 00:59:08,360
you're right but if i do if i think

1407
00:59:11,770 --> 00:59:09,830
about the classics it has an element

1408
00:59:13,810 --> 00:59:11,780
because i love not only you and i

1409
00:59:15,970 --> 00:59:13,820
watched a documentary last night made

1410
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:15,980
from 1976 with Peter Graves called

1411
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:18,410
mysterious monsters about Bigfoot about

1412
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:20,330
a Bigfoot well there I'd be big feet

1413
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:22,250
Bigfoot's out there but nobody's caught

1414
00:59:31,390 --> 00:59:27,470
one yet yeah so fate oh so tell me more

1415
00:59:33,940 --> 00:59:31,400
about your tattoo prohibit the feet

1416
00:59:35,890 --> 00:59:33,950
shown was so big it was like five or six

1417
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:35,900
times the area of a human foot see have

1418
00:59:38,890 --> 00:59:37,760
to be yesterday five or six times the

1419
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:38,900
weight of a human to leave her

1420
00:59:42,550 --> 00:59:41,330
impression that big and all sorts of

1421
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:42,560
problems will arise about the structure

1422
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:44,810
of a body that big that having this been

1423
00:59:48,610 --> 00:59:46,730
overs for a Bigfoot and people point out

1424
00:59:50,260 --> 00:59:48,620
in the program nobody bought a deadbeat

1425
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:50,270
full body out you know what the funniest

1426
00:59:54,070 --> 00:59:51,770
thing of that program for me last night

1427
00:59:56,350 --> 00:59:54,080
then this car expected to tam Australia

1428
00:59:58,660 --> 00:59:56,360
is at one stage believe it or not they

1429
01:00:03,000 --> 00:59:58,670
were scientists actually disgusting

1430
01:00:05,860 --> 01:00:03,010
Bigfoot's boobs yeah I am not kidding

1431
01:00:07,540 --> 01:00:05,870
yeah remember that the Patterson film

1432
01:00:09,370 --> 01:00:07,550
right yeah and it and they're looking at

1433
01:00:11,590 --> 01:00:09,380
it saying it seems to have these big

1434
01:00:12,970 --> 01:00:11,600
breasts out in front foot boobs I really

1435
01:00:15,010 --> 01:00:12,980
fell off the chairs they say well no

1436
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:15,020
problem yeah he's got the sort pointing

1437
01:00:19,210 --> 01:00:17,210
ahead of a male but the big boobs big

1438
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:19,220
boobs or a female them and one of you

1439
01:00:22,810 --> 01:00:20,810
people my life's come to I'm watching a

1440
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:22,820
documentary about Bigfoot's boobs I was

1441
01:00:25,750 --> 01:00:24,050
one of the Bigfoot believers point out

1442
01:00:27,940 --> 01:00:25,760
you know what do you know about Bigfoot

1443
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:27,950
boobs anyway maybe they're all pointy

1444
01:00:34,300 --> 01:00:31,910
agent becomes getting a in Bigfoot

1445
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:34,310
browse or something you know we're going

1446
01:00:44,590 --> 01:00:37,130
to start marketing Bigfoot bra I like

1447
01:00:46,810 --> 01:00:44,600
that it's the Bigfoot breast enhancer

1448
01:00:50,830 --> 01:00:46,820
I'm trying to work out what part of

1449
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:50,840
Tamra minds Richard of boobs oh no

1450
01:00:56,110 --> 01:00:54,770
you're a manual the hashtag rebecca

1451
01:00:59,860 --> 01:00:56,120
watson i was thinking of something i

1452
01:01:02,350 --> 01:00:59,870
said uh wonder when rebecca watson did

1453
01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:02,360
her her her quiz right after me and it

1454
01:01:10,260 --> 01:01:04,400
was Twitter and everyone's a bird that

1455
01:01:12,700 --> 01:01:10,270
was hilarious everyone is it was good

1456
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:12,710
she's lost the blood she's lost apply

1457
01:01:17,950 --> 01:01:14,240
now what a wonderful time at

1458
01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:17,960
now Chris yeah we were so pleased that

1459
01:01:21,310 --> 01:01:20,270
you were able to come along and and

1460
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:21,320
you're just the man we're looking

1461
01:01:29,290 --> 01:01:25,210
forward to give Randy the help he needed

1462
01:01:31,420 --> 01:01:29,300
because let's face it he's 82 and he was

1463
01:01:33,550 --> 01:01:31,430
the center of attention but I thought

1464
01:01:35,470 --> 01:01:33,560
its center or Santa he used the center

1465
01:01:38,350 --> 01:01:35,480
of attention attention Eli Zealand um

1466
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:38,360
but I thought he handled himself at his

1467
01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:40,850
age so well and he was always there for

1468
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:43,550
people it was incredible yeah I'm then I

1469
01:01:46,990 --> 01:01:45,650
was writing sort of jotting down some

1470
01:01:47,859 --> 01:01:47,000
some notes and stuff about what we did

1471
01:01:49,870 --> 01:01:47,869
the other day I'm trying to write up a

1472
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:49,880
bitter row prob excuse me a report about

1473
01:01:53,410 --> 01:01:52,130
it and one of the things I kept coming

1474
01:01:54,910 --> 01:01:53,420
back to was the fact that every time I

1475
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:54,920
said to him you know maybe you maybe she

1476
01:01:58,000 --> 01:01:56,090
kind of a couple of hours rest we got a

1477
01:01:59,320 --> 01:01:58,010
lot on tonight he'd be like nope no good

1478
01:02:01,540 --> 01:01:59,330
you know I want to undo this and want to

1479
01:02:04,180 --> 01:02:01,550
undo that and I I was naked by the end I

1480
01:02:07,930 --> 01:02:04,190
think yes he's fitter than I am it's

1481
01:02:11,109 --> 01:02:07,940
just remarkable at how I am about him he

1482
01:02:16,030 --> 01:02:11,119
was just so yeah personable yeah and so

1483
01:02:18,070 --> 01:02:16,040
out there I was taken aback that it was

1484
01:02:21,460 --> 01:02:18,080
last year or the year before that he was

1485
01:02:23,230 --> 01:02:21,470
very ill no nurse and he was quite weak

1486
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:23,240
and couldn't interact with people just

1487
01:02:31,540 --> 01:02:27,290
in case he'd catch a disease or

1488
01:02:33,670 --> 01:02:31,550
something reddit town 7 and he was in a

1489
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:33,680
wheelchair wasn't again and then to

1490
01:02:39,670 --> 01:02:35,450
actually interact with people would have

1491
01:02:42,130 --> 01:02:39,680
been could have done something wrong you

1492
01:02:44,410 --> 01:02:42,140
know him recorded disease immunity was

1493
01:02:46,510 --> 01:02:44,420
compromised what I'm thinking of and now

1494
01:02:49,470 --> 01:02:46,520
he's just shaking everyone's hand she

1495
01:02:52,270 --> 01:02:49,480
can talk to him close and he was just

1496
01:02:54,670 --> 01:02:52,280
there and and of course there's been

1497
01:02:57,340 --> 01:02:54,680
sick just about to say it's been said

1498
01:03:01,150 --> 01:02:57,350
many times but he is as sharp as a tack

1499
01:03:03,310 --> 01:03:01,160
oh yeah just them on the ball very makes

1500
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:03,320
time for absolutely everyone as well um

1501
01:03:06,310 --> 01:03:04,970
he would if he if you've sort of

1502
01:03:07,690 --> 01:03:06,320
suddenly get a bit knackered you he

1503
01:03:09,790 --> 01:03:07,700
would come to me and say you know Chris

1504
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:09,800
I think we need to to head off but but

1505
01:03:12,849 --> 01:03:11,330
never before everyone was finished

1506
01:03:14,050 --> 01:03:12,859
coming to say hi and having photographs

1507
01:03:16,090 --> 01:03:14,060
and autographs and all that kind of

1508
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:16,100
stuff it was really it was remarkable

1509
01:03:21,930 --> 01:03:19,450
like dare we say amazing I easily

1510
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:21,940
it was amazing but yeah really really

1511
01:03:28,650 --> 01:03:24,130
glad I did it he's not spoken to be seen

1512
01:03:30,630 --> 01:03:28,660
so don't know what I did oh yeah a very

1513
01:03:32,460 --> 01:03:30,640
very cool experience but there is a

1514
01:03:34,770 --> 01:03:32,470
podcast you can download if you haven't

1515
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:34,780
done it the amazing show with James

1516
01:03:39,210 --> 01:03:37,330
rambling and no yeah I asked him a

1517
01:03:40,890 --> 01:03:39,220
question on that about Doris Stokes and

1518
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:40,900
online which is what the first time I

1519
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:44,290
got into james randi back then with the

1520
01:03:49,590 --> 01:03:47,490
water tipping the when wind online

1521
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:49,600
stormed off the show tolerate the

1522
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:52,330
pissing off you know whatever and um

1523
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:54,490
obviously gets played all the time on

1524
01:04:00,180 --> 01:03:57,690
Channel nine when they have their yes

1525
01:04:03,630 --> 01:04:00,190
best of television of television shows

1526
01:04:06,900 --> 01:04:03,640
and um yeah so I'm the amazing show it's

1527
01:04:08,970 --> 01:04:06,910
on iTunes and you can download it and it

1528
01:04:11,610 --> 01:04:08,980
has a question on there that I asked and

1529
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:11,620
you can probably still actually asked

1530
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:12,970
questions whether they'll still continue

1531
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:15,730
the podcast but it's quite good and it

1532
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:17,920
went for only probably 10 show that's

1533
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:20,470
because it's great it's Randy with a lot

1534
01:04:23,610 --> 01:04:22,240
of stories but my favorite story from

1535
01:04:26,100 --> 01:04:23,620
you you were telling me just earlier

1536
01:04:28,020 --> 01:04:26,110
verse from town Australia where we met

1537
01:04:31,590 --> 01:04:28,030
by the way we we only met just recently

1538
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:31,600
and that she was um we can't remember

1539
01:04:35,970 --> 01:04:34,330
was that the the could have been the

1540
01:04:40,620 --> 01:04:35,980
karaoke night or something but you

1541
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:40,630
wanted to meet may not oh but but I'm

1542
01:04:48,570 --> 01:04:42,490
gonna say what I said before cuz it was

1543
01:04:53,010 --> 01:04:48,580
a square would but I I the f-word I like

1544
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:53,020
minor I grew up with Maynard on triple j

1545
01:05:00,660 --> 01:04:55,450
and wherever the hell he was whenever he

1546
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:00,670
was and it was Manor DS is my mindset

1547
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,930
he's got the same sort of humor yeah

1548
01:05:09,570 --> 01:05:06,640
yeah and you really wanted to meet him

1549
01:05:12,090 --> 01:05:09,580
but he was engaged in conversation with

1550
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:12,100
Brian Dunning and Dunning get out of my

1551
01:05:16,770 --> 01:05:15,250
way I want to speak to Peter I'm sorry

1552
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:16,780
oh yeah well I said something like oh

1553
01:05:20,550 --> 01:05:18,610
sorry Brian I just want to speak to

1554
01:05:23,430 --> 01:05:20,560
Maine out it's not anything against you

1555
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:23,440
but I've grown up with Maynard and he's

1556
01:05:29,970 --> 01:05:27,970
my hero be he can have a hero but yes

1557
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:29,980
sir and then I ended up buying a vodka

1558
01:05:33,540 --> 01:05:31,330
and orange from a nerd

1559
01:05:36,690 --> 01:05:33,550
at the end because you know it's my

1560
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:36,700
heart and I just absolutely love his

1561
01:05:42,300 --> 01:05:39,250
input to the skeptic zone his yeah it's

1562
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:42,310
grace knows he's straight up and down

1563
01:05:48,420 --> 01:05:44,530
with he likes what he likes and I want

1564
01:05:50,460 --> 01:05:48,430
to hear something from someone different

1565
01:05:52,650 --> 01:05:50,470
not just the skeptical view I want to

1566
01:05:54,810 --> 01:05:52,660
hear something that's a bit out there

1567
01:05:57,930 --> 01:05:54,820
and i love the out there because it's

1568
01:05:59,820 --> 01:05:57,940
make sure what it's probably why you and

1569
01:06:01,860 --> 01:05:59,830
I got into this in the very first place

1570
01:06:04,010 --> 01:06:01,870
because we love the the out there what

1571
01:06:07,730 --> 01:06:04,020
you know that the strange the mysterious

1572
01:06:13,170 --> 01:06:07,740
911 stuff as much as we know that it's

1573
01:06:15,210 --> 01:06:13,180
bull crap I just love hearing why people

1574
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:15,220
keep bringing it up and it might be

1575
01:06:20,130 --> 01:06:17,170
forever that they'll keep bringing up

1576
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:20,140
the same rubbish but it's just amazing

1577
01:06:25,770 --> 01:06:21,970
that these people can continue with

1578
01:06:29,010 --> 01:06:25,780
their the way of thought 911 what's the

1579
01:06:30,690 --> 01:06:29,020
other stuff I'll conspiracies in general

1580
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:30,700
I'm just trying to think of his name he

1581
01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:33,010
was a football I've got him on Twitter

1582
01:06:38,820 --> 01:06:35,590
and Facebook he's an English for you

1583
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:38,830
used to be an Englishman no no no king

1584
01:06:48,830 --> 01:06:46,570
of [\h__\h] David I of course as I said

1585
01:06:52,290 --> 01:06:48,840
on um one of the podcasts from England

1586
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:52,300
David Icke yes David Icke king of

1587
01:06:57,390 --> 01:06:54,730
[\h__\h] and he is king of [\h__\h] up

1588
01:06:59,370 --> 01:06:57,400
but I love reading what he has to say no

1589
01:07:03,180 --> 01:06:59,380
will look we are so pleased at Maynard's

1590
01:07:04,740 --> 01:07:03,190
party so I appreciate the fact that may

1591
01:07:06,270 --> 01:07:04,750
not filled in for me a few weeks back

1592
01:07:08,790 --> 01:07:06,280
and you you thought that was quite funny

1593
01:07:10,770 --> 01:07:08,800
I was just great it was just relieving

1594
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:10,780
the times when I was 15 and hearing

1595
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:13,930
Maynard just talked his voice it's just

1596
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:17,410
perfect for radio may not this is your

1597
01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:19,810
fan she was right here big big fan of my

1598
01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:22,000
dad and and may nights malaise and he's

1599
01:07:26,850 --> 01:07:23,920
mad show and I might actually travel up

1600
01:07:29,670 --> 01:07:26,860
to Sydney for his med show gig in Oxford

1601
01:07:31,740 --> 01:07:29,680
Street i think it is with all the widow

1602
01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:31,750
people out that way but it'll be fun

1603
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:34,510
that's what it's all about and again I

1604
01:07:37,770 --> 01:07:36,250
suppose we've come in lots of circles

1605
01:07:40,290 --> 01:07:37,780
here but that's coming back to the

1606
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:40,300
circle of like-minded people and having

1607
01:07:44,290 --> 01:07:41,570
a good time

1608
01:07:46,090 --> 01:07:44,300
and also being skeptics is it's almost a

1609
01:07:48,700 --> 01:07:46,100
side issue sometimes it's a stirred and

1610
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:48,710
I think he wants to introduce music into

1611
01:07:52,810 --> 01:07:50,570
skepticism which I kind of think is

1612
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:52,820
quite good too you got George for a bbbj

1613
01:07:58,120 --> 01:07:55,970
and George her over BTW and there's a

1614
01:08:01,240 --> 01:07:58,130
few other people into this skeptical

1615
01:08:03,340 --> 01:08:01,250
music scene but why not ask people what

1616
01:08:05,650 --> 01:08:03,350
sort of music they like in the scene and

1617
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:05,660
hmm a lot of people are just too up and

1618
01:08:13,510 --> 01:08:08,090
down with their thoughts let's just open

1619
01:08:16,450 --> 01:08:13,520
it up and relax and just get more open

1620
01:08:21,579 --> 01:08:16,460
about skepticism whether it's in music

1621
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:21,589
or critical thought or everything yeah

1622
01:08:26,110 --> 01:08:23,330
and that's why we're here today I think

1623
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:26,120
universe in every night yeah we're here

1624
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:27,410
today we're going to be quite relaxed

1625
01:08:30,700 --> 01:08:28,850
soon because the BBQ is going to be

1626
01:08:32,860 --> 01:08:30,710
starting this year's schedule at

1627
01:08:34,329 --> 01:08:32,870
barbecues but skeptical barbecue we're

1628
01:08:36,099 --> 01:08:34,339
going to crack open another bottle of

1629
01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:36,109
something rather i think is around the

1630
01:08:40,150 --> 01:08:38,510
corner the most of you believe is on the

1631
01:08:42,220 --> 01:08:40,160
spit we're gonna rehearse different

1632
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:42,230
believes on the spit here but until then

1633
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:43,970
and I don't want to thank everybody for

1634
01:08:49,900 --> 01:08:45,650
coming along to this lovely little

1635
01:08:52,570 --> 01:08:49,910
afternoon melbourne think tank and so

1636
01:09:13,180 --> 01:08:52,580
we'll grab our glasses here and say

1637
01:09:18,700 --> 01:09:16,430
hello I'm Tony Pittman the presenter of

1638
01:09:21,620 --> 01:09:18,710
the weekly radio show and podcast

1639
01:09:24,079 --> 01:09:21,630
reality check broadcast from here in

1640
01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:24,089
Melbourne Australia and if you like

1641
01:09:27,950 --> 01:09:25,920
listening to the skeptic zone maybe

1642
01:09:31,309 --> 01:09:27,960
you'd like to check out reality check

1643
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:31,319
each week we bring you a roundup of LGBT

1644
01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:34,770
news that's news related to lesbian gay

1645
01:09:42,019 --> 01:09:38,310
bisexual and transgender issues plus a

1646
01:09:44,059 --> 01:09:42,029
movie review plus a serious skeptical

1647
01:09:48,140 --> 01:09:44,069
analysis of a topic related to

1648
01:09:49,550 --> 01:09:48,150
pseudoscience or the paranormal so if it

1649
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:49,560
sounds like it could be right up your

1650
01:09:56,930 --> 01:09:53,250
alley visit our website at reality check

1651
01:09:59,959 --> 01:09:56,940
online dot net there you can listen

1652
01:10:17,640 --> 01:09:59,969
online download episodes or subscribe

1653
01:10:22,810 --> 01:10:20,260
thank you for downloading the skeptic

1654
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:22,820
zonin next week i'm back in melbourne

1655
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:26,210
once again and I visit the restoration

1656
01:10:32,380 --> 01:10:29,570
of an historic telescope very

1657
01:10:33,820 --> 01:10:32,390
interesting stuff and a special guest we

1658
01:10:36,490 --> 01:10:33,830
have a special guest star coming on the

1659
01:10:38,350 --> 01:10:36,500
show next week it's so special and so

1660
01:10:41,380 --> 01:10:38,360
secret I can't even tell you who it is I

1661
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:41,390
better find somebody yeah look I'm gonna

1662
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:43,250
go away and do that you enjoy the rest

1663
01:10:47,470 --> 01:10:45,530
of the week but for now this is Richard

1664
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:47,480
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1665
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:52,490
Australia you've been listening to the

1666
01:11:00,040 --> 01:10:56,810
skeptic zone visit our website at WWF

1667
01:11:03,430 --> 01:11:00,050
digs on TV for comments contacts and

1668
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:03,440
extra video reports